The International House of Mojo

This could have been a quiet discussion, alas...

Remi O I would like to meet you. You must be one of those people that lead a discussion without listening to the other side. It would be fun if you actually had something to say...

SO FAR you've attacked our statement about EMI not being a MI game on a literal basis (reminds me of one of those pathetic Joes from central USA that think Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" really proposes that children of the poor should be eaten by the rich), attacked Matt's English (even though English is not your first language either), repeatedly insulted this mediocre brain of mine (riot of laughs!), and insisted on your thesis that was a mere repetition of the obvious, and is besides the point--we're saying that the earth goes around the sun, and you're attacking us by saying that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west--while we totally agree that is true--it is a fact that has nothing to do with what is our major premise!!!

Long live Tycho Brahe and the geocentric world!:)

Tee... You're constantly trying to claim that I pulled this down to a personal level, when you two brainiacs are the ones doing it constantly. It's actually really funny.

How many times have you stated, in a multitude of ways, that we are dumb?:} Of course it is personal! Lacking arguments you've reduced the whole farce on a personal level!

"From: Matt K. (11:52:03) - Reply yeah- remi o is an idiot... was and will be" ............ I can only assume that you're criticizing your colleague.

I can only point you towards earlier messages. Yes, you are dumb, there's no doubt about that, but this is something you've managed to state yourself through your half-assed arguments.

First of all my argument is sound, Aristotle can vouch for that, though I would like to exculpate myself for an egregious inconsistency that no one noticed: I said cerebellum, which is the "small brain"--the one for bodily functions--cerebrum is what I meant. You were right, that was dumb of me. I think I will kill myself, not being able to face the shame of being dumb. OH THE AGONY! Hara-kiri is the only way to go... Where is my katana kit?

Now that I go back, I see that in fact you were the first to call Matt a dumb-ass, circuitously as well as overtly. You were looking for a brawl, man.

Read carefully

"It has Monkey Island in the title... It's about Guybrush Threepwood... It's made by LucasArts... Most fans (minus a vocal minority) at least likes the game... Hence it's Monkey Island. Your personal opinion isn't worth anything one way or another when it comes to that subject."

With reply:

"hey stupid! they guide won't support MI4--- well, seems you were interested in our site- maybe we you liked it- but it doesn't like you. p.s.: i'm sorry you don't know monkey island- bad luck!"

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm not, I'm just being redundant again... You were the first to say that his opinion isn't worth spit, basically. :)

Correct me if I was wrong, but did I or did I not back my point up without resorting to name calling... Most people who know half-way how to carry a discussion will present a point, and back it up with clear facts to prove that their counterpart is wrong. Obviously, this isn't clear to everybody here...

You are resorting to literal analysis again... Correct me, please, I beg of you!!! But haven't we solved this earlier? We don't mean it word-for-word.

Actually I don't see how you people have solved anything yet.

You're making me feel like a teacher who is being confronted "l'art pour l'art" by some punky freshman who wants to disrupt the class... Clear your fogged up mind and don't make me loose my cool by repeating that stale phrase.

i received a lot of new mails... you' ll find them on our site in some days. BTW we don't even have a counter- we don't care about traffic - we know that we said something that a lot of fans were waiting for.
everything was said- this is my last comment... and you don't have to reply. there's nothin' to discuss concerning this comment. you'll find all answers in one ore more of the 155 messages below. I don't have time to check this board every day (unlike other cursing and budding members of the MI-community) and in the last days many fans and friendly visitors confirmed my theory. bye. signing of...

www.DeepInTheCaribbean.com

AHA! You admitted there IS a Monkey Island Community. :)

man, I'm not questioning if there's a fourth MI title or if there's a MI community- I'm asking you if there's still MONKEY ISLAND INSIDE.

and as you seem to have a problem with understanding symbols... not the guts or the CDROM-Case... i'm talking about the soul of game and community... for me both things haven't much of a Monkey Island soul. at least the game(EMI). if you tell me again that "there has never been a MI-feeling" you can stop to discuss.

SCREW OFF ALREADY! MI4 Rocks!

Right-o!

CMI kicks ass. It's a tribute to the series, while EMI pisses on the previous games by trivializing Guybrushes role and negating the whole 3D joke in CMI. Lucasarts is dying a more horrible death than Sierra. Well back to Star Control 2. I'm relivin' the DOS days now. I tell ya there was never a better era of games. Someone should go back to 256 color VGA and make a killer adventure game. I'd buy it. Hell for me graphics are the least important part of a game. 1.Story 2.Gameplay 2.Sound (music) 3.Graphics Lots of people would probably switch those first two. -The eighties and early nineties rock

Maybe a little late but here goes. You are right about Duke being better in 3D, but Quake. In my humble opinion Quake paled in comparison to Doom. Doom was a thrill ride, with a colorful palette and real energy. Quake... well there are two words to describe Quake... Brownish grey. Zelda... that was way better in 2D. Lets face it, we all wish real life was 2 dimensional. Things would be much more simple and fun.

People...people... this argument has already gone on for 149...

...150 messages already. :) Why can't we all just agree to disagree? You don't like the site's descision, don't go there. You don't mind it? Go there. It's not like you are all at gunpoint or anything.

I guess there is intelligent life on this planet! Whoa Nelly, I think Ben here hit on something. I think thats the smartest thing said yet =)

I guess I can give my two cents. First off, I totally agree that Lucasarts doomed if they keep with the Star Wars games. My god, just how long can they exploit that franchise? Lemme just say what my thoughts about EMI are. First off, as far as dialogue and voice goes, it is just as good as CMI. The puzzles for the most part were fair, I loved the Mysts 'O Time. Sure, Monkey Kombat was not pulled off very well, but I thought the whole giant monkey thing was amusing. Graphically, I thought the 3D was good, and as much as I loved the animated Guybrush in CMI, 3D IS the wave of the future, and if shoot 'em ups and strategy games adapt to 3D, then Adventure games have to as well. Personally, I agree that EMI was announced and released a little too fast. And there were kinks that needed to be worked out. But to go as far as say it isn't a Monkey Island game??? When I played MI for the first time, I didn't even know it was supposed to be a comedy! It made me laugh, and thats what made me play MI2 and CMI. EMI made me laugh as well, in fact, it made me laugh quite a bit. I am not looking for something to be REVOLUTONARY or anything, (MI2 wasn't) I just wanted to keep up with the Guybrush story. And as a final note, the guys that posted the thing about EMI just wanted attention.

ok- ... i asked spaff to post "no support for emi" as a news article to see how YOU would react- well, i guess that worked!! thanks for your comments... we made our decision and got a lot of feedback. we received very positive comments and negative one's aswell. (somehow the postive ones were much longer and friendly and used less swearwords :) ... these words are not meant to put an end to this discussion -

BTW thanks to the MIXNMOJO staff for still hosting us :)

Right. I still think you should change your EMI message a little. Little changes such as "This is not Monkey Island (*as far as I'm concerned, anyway. A lot of people do consider it Monkey Island despite what I think.*)" and "It is a fact (*and this is a figure of speech. It is 100% not a fact at all and just my opinion. I have no say over what is fact and what isn't.*)" etc. Ok?

These additions don't have to be made... of course I'm just talkin' about me and my site... the same goes for "it's a fact"... it's my text-> for ME, it's a fact.
No one would add these (**)'s... imagine how strange it would have looked if a philosoph had done that. this is a theory. it's my theory. it's my opinion.

I respect your opinion- that's why i asked spaff to add this news article... I wanted to hear YOUR opinion. The first things I read were "shitty site", "leave", "no right to have an opinion of your own", "not a budding member of the MI community"... and then followed positive, long and clever comments.
it's not good for you who don not share our opinion (e.g. remi) if you just post low level punches and "I'm-not-listening-I'm-not-listening"-messages. that's not friendly...
BTW- we're dicussing not arguing- seems some of you forgot that fact.

If my theory is that you're not terribly bright (purely hypothetical question), is it okay for me to say it's a fact? Just asking.

no. that's different. LEC is a big company of moneymakers... they don't care what you say.

... and I think you just confirmed it.

I'd like to further that comment a bit... As far as I remember, I mailed a completly fair mail saying:

"It has Monkey Island in the title... It's about Guybrush Threepwood... It's made by LucasArts... Most fans (minus a vocal minority) at least likes the game... Hence it's Monkey Island. Your personal opinion isn't worth anything one way or another when it comes to that subject."

Then you (Matt not Seerah) replied:

"hey stupid! they guide won't support MI4--- well, seems you were interested in our site- maybe we you liked it- but it doesn't like you. p.s.: i'm sorry you don't know monkey island- bad luck!"

So maybe you should shut up now, and stop living in a fantasy world.

yeah- remi o is an idiot... was and will be

What about the point he made? Don't you have a witty retort or anything? Guess not.

Or to say that the graphics on your site are entirely stolen from me-- and that it's a fact. Ok?

I have never visited your site- really. and i don't even know you- i don't care about you or your site.

But I said it was a fact.

dah- glad you weren't serious about that! :) you didn't convince me- but NEVER call me a thief... I attack EMI- you shouldn't attack ME! You should protect EMI- that's what a discussion is about. man. that really sucked- would you call my parents idiots if i say that PEPSI tastes like motor oil?? :)

man 128 !!?**&%&*&!$ comments.. thats INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
-Oscar Wilde

Hokay. *deep breath* It was only a matter of time before a great EMI debate opened up. I don't necessarily think that this was the time for it, though... Nobody here is trying to take away the site's right to state its collective opinion on the game. Plenty of sites have already stated their opinions on EMI (The SCUMM Bar's staff reviews for instance). I have to agree with Remi (Reemee) here, the argument that has been set up is not whether or not EMI is any good. Frankly, I don't think anyone cares whether you (that's a generic 'you') like it or not. The argument is whether or not it's Monkey Island. And it is. Period. I'm sure the first thing you'll want to do is question my credibility. Go for it. :) Secondly, all I have to say about your opinions (on whichever side of the spectrum you happen to be) on EMI is that most of the rest of the game consumers aren't nearly as anal-retentive as we are, and we're not the bulk of people who buy the games. Whether LEC wants to make games for themselves, or for the anal-retentive bunch, or for the bumbling masses with their still-warm-from-the-ATM-machine $20s is up to them. I feel no need to state my own opinion on EMI.

I must commend you for saying what you jsut said in a respectable, intelligent and non offensive manner. Your kind of like a Remi.O but with style, tact, and a brain. I admit that I am on the "other side" of the debate, however dont see why that means we cant all still be civil to one another. Nothing is gained by being reckless, with the exception of a demolition derby.

"Your kind of like a Remi.O but with style, tact, and a brain" - hate to say it, but you've obviously stooped down to what you see as my level.

I never played Monkey Island 1 or 2, so I don't know how they compare to 3 and 4 but I think EMI was much better than CMI. CMI was too short, the graphics look really grotty and the puzzles weren't as good as EMI. In CMI there are no puzzles that were different from the usual ones, but in EMI I really liked the way that in the swamp you have to go certain directions at different times and you meet Guybrush in the future and then you meet Guybrush in the past and you have to do everything the same way or you'll cause a paradox and get sucked up into the sky. Also, EMI's storyline was much better.

I liked that swamp thing aswell :) but the STORYLINE is the worst of the whole game, especially when it comes to that robot monkey - but you can't understand that (sorry). as we already said: it's not a bad game- but we don't like it as a monkey island game.

"This is not Monkey Island" - What the hell? Apply that to CMI as well and you might have a point.

Did we say that the fact that EMI wasn't made by Ron Gilbert is the reason we don't want to call it a MI game????

exactly... it could have been a good mi-game - if they had made it better.

Hey, it IS a good MI game, it just has some non-fans, which isn't its fault. Spaff, why don't you put up a poll asking simply whether or not EMI was good as a MI.

Ahem... CMI wasn't Ron Gilbert either.

yes... i guess you missed something. THAT is the point.

Look, I know how to stop this. If LucasArts released a MI5, then everyone who dislikes EMI would disappear, and instead a bunch of people who liked MI1-4 would show up and complain about MI5. But since we're not gonna see MI5 for a while... JUST STOP FOR GODS SAKE!!

ROTFL. This is so very very true Trapezoid.

Hahaha very good point trapezoid ;)

Big Whoop! You are so right Goddamn!: "Monkey Island 1: was the pirate game everyone dreamed about. Monkey Island 2: was the pirate game everyone tought was scary. Monkey Island 3: was the pirate game everyone tought was at the line betwen real pirating and foolish pirating. Monkey Island 4: is the pirate game that is made for kids."

The hell? MI4 is not a kiddie game. Kiddie games don't have Guybrush talking so smugly about the door to he and Elaines...bedroom... or dozens of pop culture references little ones won't get... IMO MI4 is like the Simpsons. Sure, little kids can watch/play it, but they won't have the humorous experience older kids or adults will get.

A little TOO much like the Simpsons, maybe. (coffee, anyone?)

Maybe, but hey, so is Futurama.

no futurama is better than the average NEW simpsons episode- my opinion... no discussion please.

theres a "." missing between "no" and "futurama"!!

Mmmmmmm, kudu jerky pretzels.

Get over it everybody. Doesn't matter who you are, you are entitled to an opinion, as long as that opinion does not harm others. Two people expressed their opinion. Fine. Argueing against it with valid points, also fine. But trading insults over a matter as petty as a game? This is my first message at this site, and I was expecting some more polite and frankly more constuctive opinions and debate. Isn't that what these sites are for? Like I said, everyone can have an opinion. Don't get so annoyed when it clashes with your own.

This one goes to Remi O and some other guys posting here who seem to get something wrong. Obviously by saying "This is not Monkey Island" Matt & SZ didn't mean it literally. Of course it is MI by means of its name an its producer. No one denies it. But the game goes too far away from the convention and the atmosphere created by Ron Gilbert's team. I'm not getting into details - there's plenty of good arguments below and on monkeyguide. That's why most LEC fans who liked the first two games so much, cannot accept EMI. And IMHO won't accept any other MI game made by completely different group of people. For those fans (including me) it's really sad to see some of their best memories used for making commercial product which cannot even compare to the original. It's like watching something you really care about getting destroyed... But hey, enough sentiments. To be honest I just wanted to have the 100th post ;-) Is 97 close enough?

Hmmm... I'm looking for the good arguments, but I can't find any... "That's why most LEC fans who liked the first two games so much, cannot accept EMI." - this is just not true. Read Spaff's comments and the two Adventuregamer reviews if you need proof. "And IMHO won't accept any other MI game made by completely different group of people." Why not? Sounds like you made up your mind before you played the game. EMI was great for those of us that have been playing Monkey Island since it was first released. Maybe it's not everybody's favourite, maybe it's some people's least favourite, but it's still Monkey Island.

I don't want to and I'm unable to make anyone who likes EMI dislike it. I was just trying to make you understand why lots of people cannot accept it and would prefer it has never been made. But I certainly didn't make up my mind before playing EMI. I was really counting on this game even after playing the demo, not to mention after CMI experience, which was already far from the "real thing". Unfortunatelly, EMI let me down in almost every aspect.

I'd just like to mention facism.....

I would just like to mention communism out of no particular reason...

I get what you mean though, and my original intention wasn't to force my opinion on others, I became defensive when people started insulting me...

looks like someone beat me to 85 in the time I was writing that... I guess I'm really 86 =)

I cant let it sit at 84.. just doesnt feel right. so here's #85. I am an artist, and have a very simple philosiphy on what went wrong in EMI... You can spend all the time in the world on a pianting to make it look amazing, however if your initial sketch was out of proportion or had a poor composition, your finished piece will still suck no matter how nice a job you did on it. I see that in EMI. it almost makes me cry that a team of utterly talented people working very hard to produce something that poorly planned and un-thought out. How do we know it was poorly planned? Well, if it was well planned then you would not spray calogne on a platypus randomly and the secret of Monkey Island would be soemthing other than a giant monkey robot. LEC added new meaning to "Rock Bottom" on this title. High ho Matthias, good for you for not includeing EMI on your site!

Why are everybody straying away from the subject? The question is - is it Monkey Island or not? The only ones who can decide that is LEC, no matter how much you love it or hate it, and seeing that they called it Monkey Island - tough break. And what graphics have to do with puzzles, story and verbal humour is beyond me...

Sadly no, that is not true. we live in a consumer world where the truth of somthing is dictated by those who demand it. LEC is not making this game for themselves... that sure wouldnt generate much profit. They are making it for the specific purpose of selling it to us, there for, they are making it FOR US. with that in mind, it really DOES make a difference if we say it's Monkey Island or not. Not that they are going to revoke the title, but still, it matters. oh yeah, and I see the art of drawing a parallel is not universally inherent - the painting thing was an analogy... one that applied not just to graphics but also to puzzles and story.

While I applaud your trying to apply your somewhat dubious grasp of economics here, I have to say that you/we have a misguided concept of your own importance, here.

and another one... "you have to accept. revolution is no good. please, shut up."

... don't you have ideals?? we have. you can't seriously think that someone here has a "misguided concept of his own importance"...
exception: rEMI- he thinks LEC is god- his god... like an extremist with religious motives.

sorry invisibelle- the thing i wanted to say to YOU: one man's (or women's, of course) opinion can change a lot- but he must have the right to have his own opinion... there are some guys (remi) who think that this is wrong.

No... I've said like ten times that you can hate EMI as much as you'd like, and you I don't give a damn what you put on your website. What I'm repeating again and again and again and again is that saying EMI is not Monkey Island is just plain stupid... It's not up to you to decide. I'm sure you have some excellent English classes at whatever junior-high you're attending if you need further help understanding that.

I can decide that for myself and my site... maybe YOU can't. oh. i forgot- you don't even have a site.

He's got site. www.pibluff.com, a site that isn't for newbies. *cough*

And even if I didn't... What would it matter anyway?

Well that's just silly. There are a lot of people who likes/loves EMI, some people hate it and... It's swell and giddy to say that it's a bad Monkey Island game, but you can not say that it's a different game than Monkey Island. If it is, what is it?

see below- if you can...

BTW you're always saying the same- please stop- or say something new. you don't even bring new aspects to this discussion, rEMI.

I'll say something new if you come up with a good answer. That's all.

here's your answer(again):
"well- not monkey island i guess. maybe a commercial monkey island clone- if not... maybe a bad monkey island game and for us that wouldn't be "monkey island" aswell!"
... yeah i know- lec has to decide that. you're out mister "i accept everything that someone bigger says" rEMI. your point of view is simple- everyone understood it- you have nothing to add! WE're discussing. you're just crying your line. again and again and...

Tee... You're like the worst debater I've ever seen. You don't make any valid points what-so-ever. And your "rEMI" thing... Ah that's just plain bad.

yada yada yada- seems you talked to a mirror.

Yes... Another great comeback... You're a wizard with words.

dito, rEMI

Learn how to spell - "ditto".

that was a good one- is this you half american brain jam version??? haha

Now, I've stated several times that the reason I like EMI is because it's hilarious. If you haven't noticed, MI1 and MI2 had just as much juvenille humor as EMI, so you can't complain about that. Granted, yes, it is extremely different from the other games, but why the hell not? LucasArts obviously heard the complaints about CMI being unoriginal (yes, there were many many CMI bashers in the day.) So, as far as I can tell, the only way LucasArts could release a MI without it being bashed is if they traveled back in time to the early 90s and made it then. But anyway... I think we should just stop now. Matt and Co's amount of dislike for EMI has greatly dropped from its original point since this whole argument began. Why? Because, if you don't like something, the more you talk about it the more you'll think you hate it. My little brother often does this-- he decides he wants the top bunk, and the more I tell him I want to sleep in the top bunk, the more he'll want to. I haven't played EMI for over two months but this conversation has only made me feel more defensive of it, and in turn I just like it even more. Opposite goes for EMI-bashers. That's why we should just stop before somebody assasinated Sean and Mike. BTW, at least all the EMI-bashers here have *played* EMI... unlike other EMI-bashers I could name. *cough* Daniel *cough*

The other way around is true. Read what this guy has to say. It's on humor and he is 100% right, ? mon avis... I got this through mail, but it was supposed to be a review from a site. I'm sorry I don't know the site, if anyone does, give me the link towards it.

Ca para?t peut-?tre clich?s mais le premier jeu auquel j'ai jou? fut The Secret of Monkey Island : c'?tait g?nial ,les personnages, les dialogues etm?me les graphismes. Lorsque j'ai jou? au second opus j'ai retrouv? lesm?mes sensations? mais quand j'ai jou? ? Curse of Monkey Island j'avais?volu?, et l'humour ne me fit pas rire. Au fil du jeu, j'ai appris ?l'appr?cier et je dois dire qu'il m'a parut aussi bien que les pr?c?dents.Quatres ans plus tard, je joue ? Escape from Monkey Island et l? je neretrouve pas ce qui faisait que de la s?rie des Monkey ce qu'elle ?tait.Sans aucun doute le jeu est une perle des jeux d'aventure, maiscontrairement aux autres ?pisodes de la s?ries il n'y a pas plusieursniveaux de lecture. Ce que je veux dire c'est que le non-sens n'est plusomnipr?sent ; on le retrouve quelques fois mais en g?n?ral le jeu s'adresse? des enfants.Un ami de mes parents est venu un jour chez moi et y a jou? : il a souventdit " c'est mignon ". Je pense que c'est r?v?lateur du jeu : ils avaient unpotentiel ?norme et il l'on mal exploit?. Pour moi, personne ne devraitpenser c'est mignon en jouant ? un jeu d'aventure de LucasArts ! Pour moi,les jeux d'aventure de LucasArts ont un humour noir, caustique et parfoism?chant si on y regarde de pr?s.Finalement, je pense que c'est un peu de notre faute ? nous, les fans, siEMI est rat?. Pourquoi ? Parce que nous voulions un jeu rapidement et ce jeuil est effectivement sorti rapidement : on en voit les cons?quences. Onsent que le sc?nario aurait pu partir en d?lire total, on sent que desparties du jeu ont ?taientt supprim?es, on sent que le moteur du jeu auraitpu ?tre optimis? et on sent que les personnages franchement bons ont ?t?invent? mais qu'ils ont ?t? sous-exploit?s. Par exemple il faut vraimentaller au fond des dialogues pour retrouver le go?t de la s?rie ? Vous savezquoi ? on dirait un jeu bouche trou, un jeu fade et sans saveur? on diraitl'?pisode I.Une g?n?ration de cr?ateurs a quitt? l'?quipe de LucasArts, aujourd'hui lesmembres de cette noble entreprise n'ont pas la libert? n?cessaire pour cr?erde bons jeux. Alors, Messieurs et Mesdames les fans, Messieurs et Mesdamesles business-man laissez les programmeur, les designers, les artistes fairece qu'il d?sir et sans doute retrouverons- nous le talent de Ron Gilbert ouTim Schafer.GuybrushTheDwarf fan d'un jour fan pour ?

You do understand that this is an English speaking site, right? Or did that fact just fly by your head? Should I just paste in a Norwegian review of EMI and expect everyone to understand it?

oh, i see- you're generally bad person- not just when it comes to emi.

Why negative art thou so? This is meant for people who speak French, and you're deprived.... How unfortunate... Clickhere for Babelfish

You're such a sad little person. Btw, I ran it through babelfish and got the usual half assed translation.

Yes. I agree. I am a small, sad little person--I know nothing--Socrates was right--I'll give you that. Well, at least I don't foster fake images of myself and I tend not to robustly attack other people without using that little functional bit of my remaining hunk of cerebellum.

Yeah! Babelfish sucks!

I just spent far too long reading all 85 comments, and thought i'd post my point of view. EMI is alright, but it's not for us lot. I loved the design, it was CMI in a nifty 3D way, The dialog was ok, the gags were ok, but didn't have blend of subtle humor and belly laughs of the other games. The plot SUCKED! (and so did some of the puzzles) I think this is the real problem. EMI seems like it was made on the superficial principles of 3d shooters. Puzzles and plot are the meat and potatoes of Adventure games and EMI excelled in neither of these areas. That is why it sold well, it's a commercial game. I have nothing against LEC doing this (after all, they need to make a profit) I just wish they wouldn't stop making all those daring and innovative games like Grim Fandango, Secret of Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle. the MI guide has every right not to support EMI, it's a game for the public, not the fans. Ps. If anyone wants to insult me over this then fine, go ahed. just make sure you have a valid argument too.

But the original question is - is it Monkey Island? And it is. I don't give a damn if a little site decides not to cover EMI, that's their problem. It's just stupid to say that EMI isn't Monkey Island tho. And please don't say that EMI isn't "for us lot". I've bought every Monkey Island game almost the day they were released, and I loved EMI as much as the rest of them.

Monkey Island 1: was the pirate game everyone dreamed about. Monkey Island 2: was the pirate game everyone tought was scary. Monkey Island 3: was the pirate game everyone tought was at the line betwen real pirating and foolish pirating. Monkey Island 4: is the pirate game that is made for kids

I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but I do - which makes me think that LEC should get out of the 3d-accelleration phase while the boxes are still packed. (bad moving pun.. sorry...)
My system (just stating - not bragging) is running both win98 and 2000 with a 3DFX Voodoo 3 3000, 256MB ram, Celeron 700, and a 40-gig HD with fully tweaked swapfiles and full installs of EMI. In directx, the graphics and game are fine, but try to turn on 3d accelleration and my power pc becomes a 286... Same effect in Grim Fandango. Have also tested this with a p3 processor and an nvidia chip - same effect. Anyone else find that LEC's 3-d adventures are just too bulky.

I have a RageFury MAXX [ATI] in my new PC [AMD 800/256 mbRAM] and while this card displays 3d evergreens like half-life, quake3arena or newer games like rune perfectly there are problems with ALL LEC games-
->the status screens and displays of Jedi Knight are messing up the whole screen-
->no 3d accelarion for grim
-> flashing option screens in EMI and ugly green shadows, cutscenes are sometimes not played correctly [just audio]

but wait- INDY and the Infernal Machine runs perfectly.

No problems here, also using a voodoo3 (albeit a 3500, but it's the same chip)

Strange, I haven't had the same problem and my config is at least fairly similar to yours. (P3-800, GeForce2 GTS, 128mb RAM, 20gb HD, WinME)

EMI sould have been in 2d!!!

Who's goin' to make the 75 th entry?? me! (where's my bunch of flowers??) so, thank you all for taking part in this discussion...

greetings, capt'n matt

I had to buy Emi, because i thought i owed the company that much, but after playing a couple of scenes, it occured to me that the game was not good, not at all, this is because of the art. The art in Cmi was weird and distorted, for example: the doors were loopy, and long while in EMI, it was a little bit harder to create the same effect, since it was 3d. I feel that the art is the only thing standing between EMI and good reviews. When we played CMI, the graphics were hand drawn and everything looked like a cartoon, which we all liked, but now EMI had 3d and it ruined the effect. Again....I am never going to buy another LEC title, if they keep churning out idiotic Star wars characters and "video games" and other titles such as EMI, which was made to represent and complement us long time monkey island fans, it failed miserably, because we sadly found out that it wasnt for us, but more for kids.

I take it these are your personal views even though you say "we" and "us" all the time?

The main gripe with EMI is that, while CMI had an almost completely new team, it still kept the style and essence of MI. EMI is an MI game in name alone. While it might be fine for it to be a new game altogether, it is so far removed from MI1 and 2 (Which CMI isn't) that I personally don't believe it should have been a Monkey Island game (Of course LEC would disagree seeing as MI is another cash cow they can milk to the last, I wouldn't be surprised if every adventure they ever make from this point has the MI logo slapped on the front.)

exactly!

Matt's "exactly" is exactly right, and the reason why can be summed up in two words: Monkey Kombat.

OMG 60 comments, this has to be some kind of record !!

Duke Nukem improved by oing 3d, as did ID software when they made Quake. sim city 3k is far better, erm what else improved by going 3d.. anyone ? :P anyways.. carry on the discussion... (hexen2, heretic2) but adventure games improved.. erm.. prolly not many... i know that games that didnt improve in 3d include mario, mario kart, sonic, zerlda, etc....

I guess there's one main problem that came with the switch to 3d and that's a lack of creativity. In "the olden days" we had two dimensions. And game designers used those two dimensions in any possible way. In my opinion, it's not realism that make a good game but a distorted picture of reality. I mean, what's the point in creating realistic environments for a game if you could also have that in your real life? Games need a little magic added to them, and that's what most modern products are lacking. 3d graphics have changed this whole point. The only creativity I see in shooters or strategy games are either tons of "you're not for real"-guns or units. When Monkey Island partially went to the third dimension this whole new aspect wasn't used at all. All right, we now have different camera angles. But is that innovation? I don't think so. EMI was a good game, that's what I'd say. It was nothing new or wall-breaking. That award goes to Grim Fandango (both for an original plot and the new system). Was it a part of the Monkey Island series? If you want my opinion, it was. But I also believe that there are lots of things that could have been done better. The game could have been "more Monkey Island" than it actually is. For example, it didn't have the introductory "Deep in the Carribean". Then there's the character design: There were too many useless characters. Just think of the Lua Bar with all of its inhabitants. In what way were they important? Even the dialogue they had was less than average. And what about the puzzles? Some of them reminded me of the typical Myst puzzles, which is not a good thing. Some characters seemed more like Sam & Max characters than Monkey Island ones, like that guy from the prosthesis shop, they simply seemed to modern (sure, the game did deal with modernization, but in a few respects it went a little too far). Anyway, even though the game had flaws, I still enjoyed it a lot. In fact, it was the only PC game I had bought in months, and I swear, it was the most enjoyable I had bought and played in years.

You know man, You hit on something there that reall sticks with me... that has been bothering me and I didnt know what exactly it was. But you hit it - characters. Useless characters were amuck in the game, and when you think about it, were there any lasting personalities other than main characters? I mean, MI1 was NOTHING but lasting unforgettable extra characters (toothrot, otis, carla), number two introduced us to Largo (minor one), and the lovable Wally. Number three? Hmm...lets think about this one... who did we meet in number three that rocked the Monkey Island world with more one liners that you could handle without wetting yourself? Murray. But in number 4? No one new really stands out. I mean sure, Ozzie stands out since he was a main bad guy, but I'm talking just small role additions who just made your sides split and you could never forget. The scummbar bartender was mildly amusing, as was I. Cheese, but they still dont stand out with the strength of character like Wally or Toothrot or Murray.

well, concerning MYST: i think RIVEN is great! and Grim Fandango is brilliant and Infernal Machine is great, aswell. And Jedi Knight! Yes there are so many brilliant 3d games and I like Mario64... and Zelda (Ocarina o' Time and Majora's Mask) is a very good game aswell. It's just that many haven't even played it. (I have been a Nintendo fan since those NES days) REMEMBER: It's not the third dimension that makes a game bad! the only depressing thing about 3d is that many creatives are forced to make their games 3d because many companies won't produce 2d games. they think they'll sell more of those games that are programmed 3d unprofessionally than those that are well done in 2d.

Runaway anyone?

EMI sucks face it. Anyone who can say EMI is better than CMI has got some serious mental issues. CMI was better graphically. The interface was better. God the cutscenes. There was a really funny joke every 10 lines instead of 100 and the rhyming sword fights rocked especially the ones where Guybrush made up wrong answers. As for the recycled jokes. They didn't bug me in CMI but they sure did in EMI. I think I accepted it in CMI because it is innevitable as a genre ages to change more from invention like the early Sierra/Lucasarts games to convention (reusing proven techniques). Many genres follow this trend. Take the western. It started out with Ford and other directors using straight forward heroes with no flaws that saved the day. As the genre aged, the story's stayed very similar, but more depth was given to characters, such as John Wayne's character in the Searchers. The same holds true for games. Adventure game heroes started out simple, a king on a quest, and have grown to have more complex backstories, like April, but their story structures are similar. The all follow the basic heroes journey formula. CMI puzzles actually made sense while the puzzles in EMI were very much like Sam and Max. Sea sponges wedging a safe door open.... OK? The animation in CMI was rich while EMI was stagnant. And the biggest reason.... the clouds. 3D is bad for adventure games because. 1.) Drains life from characters. It works better in TLJ because of the realistic setting than in cartoon games. 2.) Returning to the Alone in the Dark interface is not progress in my book. I had a keyboard long before a mouse. (another reason I like TLJ but not EMI) 3.)Look at how the renderings of April and Guybrush turned out. (ouch) 4.)Name one series that improved by going 3D (Metal gear Solid is pretty sweet, but the 2D ones were also badass so I won't give it to ya. 5.)These 2D 3D hybrids are just waiting to become fully 3D. Then it's all over. It'll be worse than Myst. By the way I'm a 3D animator/modeler if you like contradictions.

Why is this being treated as such a big deal? A couple of guys run a website, and because they don't update it to feature a game they don't like, they are treated like they've committed some kind of atrocity. I don't have a website myself, but I imagine running one takes a great deal of work. Should these two guys have an obligation to add to that workload by covering a game they hate, just because it has "Monkey Island" in it's title?

I agree with the refusal to host EMI materials partly because of the reasons stated and partly due to my own beliefs. I have been watching LucasArts since the Maniac Mansion days, and saw some pretty damn good adventures churn out of their factories. However, I do see the point of the whole "staw wars" problem in that we get one good/passable adventure to every 4-5 star wars titles. From what I can see, it looks like LEC is using their adventures department to beta-test star wars usable technology. My objection to EMI, however, lies almost totally with the over-commercialization of some of the stuff in there. The Starbuccaneers coffee shop is a good example - I wonder how many LEC staff members drink starbucks coffee? A quick we'll-trade-you-"subliminal"-advertizing-for-discounts-on-coffee note to the owner/manager of starbucks and bam - free coffee for all, and a cheesy joke for the game. Monkey Kombat was another gripe (yes, I know I made a monkey kombat site...bite me) - Mortal Kombat outlived its 15 minutes of fame, and to parody it in a monkey island title, to me, reeks of sierra's crap that they pushed into the space quest series. Don't put these guys down for their opinions... War seems to be a recurring theme in message bases nowadays - first Just Adventure+, and now this site, and it doesn't make any sense. If you are so critical of a monkey island site that doesn't include EMI, then drag out your own html editor, do your own hard work on your website, and make sure that you cover emi as much as you want. After you get it up, drop me an e-mail and I'll be sure to come to your site and gripe about any descisions you have made. I commend this site for its ideals and opinions, and hope to see other free-minded individuals do the same.

thank you- ( they almost managed to convince me :) now i know i did the right thing.

Well said Ben. Can we stop the fighting please?!

Ok, i played EMI, and didnt like it, there we go, as far as Lucasarts games go from now on, im not buying a single one anymore. The best game was Cmi, and i got it for my birthday and was really happy, very nice game, and it was a well continuation to the MI legacy, but EMI GOD DAMN! wtf? there was no art, that was just skins posted over wire mesh. Where is the heart, the jokes, the similes, the awwwww!!! MY GOD! I swear by god today, that i will NEVER buy another lucasarts game again! Way to go LEC! Nice to know you lost another customer, to your 3d crap modeling, and your oversaturation of the market with your worthless Star Wars figurines, and "video games". Keep it up, and you just might be put out of your misery

Well you certainly have a way with words... Just go to sleep, ok?

You certanly have a way with insults...dumbass!

Idiotism can be hilarious... =)

Hilariousness makes me laugh.:)

Bravo to Matt and SZ! You have expressed yourselves wonderfully in your well-written articles, and defended your positions admirably against flames from people who believe that EMI deserves a place in the MI saga. Best of all, you stated the few very good things that EMI did, such as voice acting. My hat's off to you two!

But they made a major no no by ignoring how god damn funny the game is. Either that or they just don't get any of the jokes.

I never liked the three stooges, though I liked the slightly morbid side of Gilbert's MI and somewhat dry humor of CMI.

A "Sam Becketty" MI would be a nice alternative, as well!!!

So, just because you don't get the jokes, obviously no one else does, right?

No, I do get them... I get them. I only tend to pity myself for being so senselessly ignorant of something so blissful...

Erm... Ha-ha...

The problem with me, and I'm fully aware of the grimness of it, is that my sense of humor transcends the Three Stooges... Call it genetic pre-disposition to comedy that is funny...

I agree... they just dont make humor the way they used too!

My opinion is that saying EMI is not Monkey Island is just an easy way to for webmasters to avoid making a major update to their webpage.

Err... Not a major reason... But you have a good 1/26th of a reason.

You know, I love the way you people are defensive without a reason, without a single $*^%$ premise to show! If you're starting an argument, at least back it up, you cretins. We had our reasons! You give us none! So far you've just made analogies with Burton (who, btw is a genius), that are neither examples of sound logic, nor do they prove us wrong.

Oh, and appealing to Spaff to throw us out is nice, quite--the easy way out. It's the same as throwing a country out of United Nations (a peace-making body) so that you can BOMB IT! Not once have I said in my review that EMI was bad because it was made not by Ron Gilbert, rather I have said that it was a failure in terms of looks, story and puzzles--if it is analogous to anything then to Phantom Menace vs. Star Wars.

If there is anything I can't tolerate it's intolerant, narrow-minded people!!!

In as so much, it might be so, but otherwise it's crap. It's crap as a Lucas Arts adventure game (I will try not to repeat myself); it is worse than any other LEC adventure I've seen before--whence it is from simple stylistic motives and simplicity of the statement that we said we don't acknowledge it as a MI game... Try to understand it literally please!!!

And I will repeat this again - as much as I hate to do that - your personal opinion isn't worth squat. My personal opinion isn't worth squat. If LEC decides that EMI is Monkey Island 4 then it is Monkey Island 4. I don't care if the site decides to cover it or not, as it's not even remotely close to be one of the major Monkey Island sites. I - and everybody else here it seems like - am just pointing out the obvious. And what really cracks me up is that I get flamed because of a perfectly innocent e-mail which stated some simple facts. Pathetic.

WTF is a review then if it is supposed to be perfectly unbiased? And stop the low punches, would ya please?

BTW have you heard about something called "fan feedback"?

remi o. would not start a revolution for freedom or for human rights or the MonkeyIsland. He always accepts. and much worse: he wants to force others to accept aswell. He's the faceless hunchman for the big bosses -maybe not only for those at LEC...

You know... screw this... You're like listening to a broken record.

Look who's talking!

---forgot to close my big tags...

And this site is hosted at mixnmojo. Unbelievable!!!! Maybe EMI wasn't as good as it's former games, but it was still Monkey Island. The humor, the puzzles and the characters, it still is Monkey Island. You are a disgrace to the Monkey Island community!!!!!

EMI is just as good as Monkey 1/2/3, and that article is pure bullshit.

Personally I think its just a stunt by Matt to raise hits. I didnt like CMI as much as the rest, but EMI was better than CMI.CMI wois still good though. Nothing beats SMI or MILR though. Aw well. Matter of Opinion. EMI 4EVA! GF 2!

Personally, I think that LucasArts had their best years between 1989 and 1996. I never forgave them for giving up on my dusty, but trusty Amiga though. And I think you have to look at Monkey Island titles differently from the first two (which despite its quality, were both made in more or less only three years).

Well, I mean, seriously, [expeltive deleted] you. Spaff, throw these guys off the ship, they obviously have neither taste nor brains. EMI was superior to CMI by a long shot, and almost as good as SMI itself. The humour was almost on par with MI2, with LOL moments a plenty and the writing genius of Stemmle-Clark, the best adventure writing team out there. Two thumbs down.

And the point stands - love it or hate it - if it's made by LEC and has "Monkey Island" in the title, then it is... tada... Monkey Island. I don't really care one way or the other what a little site like that thinks/says, but the fact is that they're 100% wrong.

Shiver me timbers! Lots of neo-monkey fans here. What about LEC creating a network of monkeykombat.net (TM) servers around the USA? MonkeyKombat (TM) $40 + $10 monthly fee. Think about the $$$ they could make this way. Think about the fun! Eeek! Ooop! Cheeeeeee!!!

:)

It seems to me that there are a lot of people who didn't think CMI was a Monkey Island game when it came out. The site states that one of the reasons EMI is not considered a monkey game is the lack of original artists, programmers, etc, but if you think about it CMI was the same thing. There was no Ron Gilbert as project leader, but people who worked on the original games still worked on CMI and EMI(ie: Michael Land). There are some things I didn't like about the game but I still consider it a Monkey Island game. And you have to admit that no matter what you think of the game... it does have LOTS of creativity, good or bad.

well, this is capt'n matt. hi. what is the problem? did we say EMI fans are idiots? no. we don't like EMI- then why should we add it or accept as a part of the series? just because they have the official license? does james bond kill every idiot crossing his way just because he has the license to do so?? :) no. I was willing to accept it as "not so great but good" 'cause I really liked some sequences but when it came to that MonkeyRobot fight and Monkey Island etc. i just couldn't do that. my problem is not "the third dimension". if this is necessary to get a new MI game I'm willing to take that- (although I thought CMI was the best proof that 2D adventures still had a chance!?) my problem is that the whole MI feeling, design AND storyline is going to be smashed by adding this game.

Sure, fine, don't include it on your site. Fine by me. But do you really think it's necessary to strip the game of its Monkeyhood, despite what the rest of the world thinks? You can't just say it's not MI and twitch your nose like that. Here's my latest theory. LucasArts obviously heard all the complaint from some of our more sour community members about CMI's unoriginality, so, they thought they needed to make something more original. And there is no such thing as "the MI feel," but rather the three seperate "feels" of the previous games. You can't expect EMI to be just like the other games. The MIs should all be original, with certain recurring themes, references and locations... and the less recycled the better. It's like some kind of TV show where every episode is made by a different group of people in a different style, and... why the hell not? You're just not supposed to have preconceived notions. I almost decided exactly what I wanted to play before I played EMI; luckily I forced myself to forget it all and just see how much EMI made me laugh. It is a very funny game.

Just making one thing clear: I judged the game based on its predecessors, my own high standards and pure aesthetics of everything, which kinda commes to mean one same thing. The game as a game was not bad, but it doesn't quite reach ANY of the previous games made by LEC. I plan not to attack it just so that it be attacked, nor do I act as a sophist here, taking the other side just for the sake of the argument. I just say that all my opinions are pivoted on the previous games and standards set by them--EMI reaches none. Everyone has a right to say what he/she thinks--forcing Matt and I to INCLUDE EMI in the site is nebulous, for it goes against our own ethics and views. We're just destilling the bad stuff and presenting it to LEC in a concise forme. Signing out---

We're not forcing you to include EMI, we're just disagreeing with you. You really can't say EMI doesn't reach the previous games' standards-- the music is just as good as CMI's, the voice acting is even better. And the humor-- oh god, if you don't find this game funnier than all the others combined... who the hell are you, some kind of stuck up critic without a sense of humor? And you can't judge a game by its predecessors. Do you judge people by their parents?

PS: Sve shto sam napisao, ima neki smisao, ko me ikad proglasi za klovna, neka jede govna.

CMI's unoriginality?? there's no such thing like the mi feel? hell- wh?t are you doing here- seems your not the right person to discuss this topic.

It's interesting that your only counter argument seems to be "your not the right person to discuss this topic.".

Monkey Island, the original story, ended on the second one. A new chapter began on 3 and 4. So you either support the 4 games or you suport the 2 made by Ron Gilbert. I host the mansion, and I not going to stop supporting Day of the Tentacle just because it doesn't have the maniac mansion "feel". Monkey Island is a 10 year old game, damnit; things change. It's also hard to make a sequel with a different producer; it's never as good as the original: jaws 2, 3, etc.; Batman 2, 3, 4; Civ: Call to power, and other games and movies. I know what I'm talking about so there.

Right. Actually, Batman 2 was made by Tim Burton, just like the first one, but the rest weren't.

And look how _nice_ everything went. Val Kilmer the inventor of the suppository smile! Yuck.

My question is "If it's not Monkey Island, what it is?" For the record - I loved EMI...

well- not monkey island i guess. maybe a commercial monkey island clone- if not... maybe a bad monkey island game and that wouldn't be "monkey island" aswell! have you ever played "the Secret of Monkey Island(tm)", "Monkey Island 2: Le Chuck's Revenge(tm)" or "the Curse of Monkey Island(tm)"??... or did you just join the cult to test your new 3d accelerator :) you can't change the fact that we don't like it, rEMI.

What the hell are you talking about?

Matt, Remi is a budding member of the Monkey Island community, whereas you, are not. So go away. Unless of course, you use other Nicks...

Monkey Island Community- why do you call it MI community? You don't even like Monkey Island. Creating a Website based upon MI is much harder than just dropping a line in every MI-messageboard and chat you can find- yada yada yada... all talk and no action. SCABBISLAND, I really like ESCAPEMI.COM (a friendly hello to ZeroXcape!) but being the newsguy over there doesn't make you a star- ... MI community... don't use that expression- MI was maybe the reason why you met first... and it was the reason why I created this website -now, that doesn't make us relatives- but what do you think makes you superior?? and don't tell me "The MI Community" -and being "a member of the MI community" for a longer time (?) isn't a reason aswell. you are not an Admin of the MI Community- you can't tell us to leave- we're at home (virtually). are you??

"You don't even like Monkey Island"? Actually, that would be you.

Tee... This is the reply I got from the site:

"hey stupid! they guide won't support MI4--- well, seems you were interested in our site- maybe we you liked it- but it doesn't like you. p.s.: i'm sorry you don't know monkey island- bad luck!"

Can anyone translate this?

ah ja, i zee... maybe the problem is that you can't read english and by the way: posting mails is not very clever... but as you posted mine, here's yours: "Second - As a part of the MI community (which I know you're not) this answer is laughable. Constructive criticism is something anyone should accept. Guess this is what happens when 9 year olds like yourself tries to run a shitty site." oh- very clever mail :) again the monkey island community- what the hell do you think you are? free-masons? ku-klux-klan?? shitty site... thank you very much. mister, you have stile!! :)

Please learn basic spelling and third grade grammar. I'm glad you think I have "stile"...

You pitiful excuse for a human! Could have you given him a lower punch? You could use a more creative way of insulting Matt, like, "Your mother wears combat boots"--the ever so popular one, but no, you had to insult his English, even though it is probably his third language. Do me a favor and stay in Bismarck, or wherever you reside, use your American language, probably the only one you're proficient in, and don't insult foreigners!!! Jerk.

I'm not an American... I'm not from an English speaking country... Think before you speak next time, mkay?

No, I never think. Takes too much time, as you have noticed and ever so kindly brought to my attention. If it is so, as you have said, then your case is even worse! You have spent your third grade and on in US, probably made suchlike mistakes at some point in your life, and you're attacking someone foreign for his or her inconsequential errors. Stop while you're ahead, you're not helping yourself.

But you live there dontcha?

This is true, tho only for... ooooh... little less than three years. I don't mind spelling errors, or gramatical errors for that matter as I'm sure I'm as bad as most people when it comes to that. What I do hate are comments thrown together that makes no sense what-so-ever. Like "well, seems you were interested in our site- maybe we you liked it- but it doesn't like you".

True. And I have a great respect for your opinions but personally I can't help but sort of agree with these guys. I mean, *of course* EMI is a part of the MI series but the fact is it's A LOT different from the previous ones. Including CMI. I myself found the game very disappointing and I know I'm a part of a very small minority when I say this. Anyway, it's their desicion not to support EMI and I think they should have the right to do so. PS. I live in Finland so please don't nitpick about possible spelling errors (though nitpicking is definitely one thing we have in common Mr. O. =)

Hehehehehe...:)

Well I enjoyed it, I didnt like CMI but EMI was nice.

Being sick of all the petitions, LEC made EMI for the fans to never ever ask for Monkey Island sequel again (just kidding, alright? :-)

The Twilo Foundation agrees with the Ess. Guide to MI. Suggestion: Web based Community-wide boycotting of SW games and EMI? Plus original (and 2D) adventure game petition!

Ok, im sorry i have just seen something really cool and felt i have to share it. Whoever thought EMI was weak take a look at this game and tell me what you think http://www.adventuregamer.com/previews/runaway_beta.shtml

I so agree with this, lucasarts isnt what it used to be, and especially now when phantom menace came out and episode 2 that's coming out every star wars fan wants stupid merchandise. They dont care about all the other stuff. How many star wars games have been released by lucasarts in the last 24 years? a thousand? more? gimme a break, im so sick of star wars and it's gayness.

So let me get this straight. LA makes lots of Star Wars, etc, and you hate it. Then they, make EMI, and you hate it. What will you be hating next? Also, I notice that very few EMI-bashers are "true" members of the MI community. IE, what have *you* done for the community? You haven't even bothered to post anywhere other than in reply to news. And you use the word "gayness," which I think only further nullifies your opinion. I also note that everyone I know who likes EMI has a sense of humor. Coincidence? I think not.

whatever- I think he can have his own opinion without hanging around in monkeychats and comment sections several hours a day- that would be very arrogant to allow only those an own attitude who are "known" to the "MI- community.