Control Yourself! 18 Jul, 2009 / Comments: 71
Surplus Gamer, AKA Mr Coloumb, AKA "that guy from the podcasts," wrote up some thoughts on the control system argument, currently raging its way across the barren plains of the Internet, like a microcosm of the Iraq war.
For those who don't know, some people are angry at Telltale for forgoing the hallowed point 'n' click control system in the latest Monkey Island game. These people, says Mr Gamer, are wrong.
Is someone supposed to be working on the counterpoint?
The direct control is NOT something new also, it is a rather an old phenomenon. To bring up the argument of "evolution" for the control system is inappropriate for me.
I liked TOMI, I didn't expect it to be so much fun (but I disagree with the episodic form) but I want to focus on the game.
PS. If you want a good paradigm about a 3D adventure game and how the player interacts and moves through the enviroment correctly, see GK3.
I believe that TMI is static in that section. Moving around with different camera angles, doesn't elevates the game's exploration level. Something that the past Monkey Islands (except from EMI) had without the 3D enviroment.
The thing is that we are not focusing on the adventure elements of the specific adventure game, but we are arguing for the controls, and I wonder why... (apart from that we MUST be pretentious with Monkey Islands games obviously).
As for GK3, many players had the same opinion with yours, but many players like direct control also :). The fact is that the specific adventure game with the *specific* engine was working as it should. What about TMI...?
We should focus on my first arguments more imho.
Something that may be worth trying is having a button on the mouse activate a "walk mode", and then you simply move the mouse in the direction you want to walk in rather than having to keep the button pushed down. Just click the button again to deactivate. I'd find it a lot nicer to use than dragging, and it could even be an option alongside the current system.
As to your suggestion, I seem to remember in a forum post that they tried that, but it didn't work well for some reason.
I really don't like playing with the keyboard, it's fine for shortcuts but I prefer these types of games to have mouse character control.
Some people ask: 'Is it worth sacrificing point-and-click controls just to get a more versatile camera?'
Others might just as well ask: 'Is it worth sacrificing a more versatile camera just to keep point-and-click movement?'
Personally, I'd answer yes to the first and no to the second because I don't think point-and-click movement is that great to begin with, and I think the hybrid system works just as well if not better, but it's all dependent on preference.
In hindsight if there's anything I'd change in the article I'd emphasise more that there IS no right answer, but the decisions Telltale are making about the controls are for the right reasons - even if there is work still to be done.
If we take the control schemes first, there are subtle, but not insignificant, differences in the way a player experiences a game depending on whether the controls are direct or indirect.
If the controls are indirect (in our case point and click but it could be anything really) the player is an observer who gives instructions. The role of the player is more like a general commanding an army rather than a soldier.
Direct controls, on the other hand, put the player directly in the shoes of the character(s) you are controlling. You are now the soldier. So the first part of the question here is do I want to observe Guybrush Threepwood or do I want to be him?
Secondly we want to look at how and when the use of dramatic camera angles is useful in the context of an interactive story. We all know that camera angles work great in tv and movies, but these are passive forms of entertainment. Unless a scene is shot in first person, it is unlikely that a viewer will imagine themselves as one of the characters (or not to the same extent as as someone playing a video game). I would suggest that if a video game makes use of direct controls then dramatic camera angles can be disorientating for the player. I can't really back this up, but what I can tell you is that the change in camera angels between the dock and the bridge was quite jarring for me personally, whereas a similar change in camera angles whilst walking up to the fisherman in MI2 was not.
Direct controls create a direct connection between the player and Guybrush. Dramatic and inconsistent camera angles disconnect the player from Guybrush. This can (may) provoke cognitive dissonance.
As you say, you can't back it up, it's just a feeling you have ... though I'm not sure it's a common one, since out of all the complaints I've heard, I haven't heard anything similar from other people. So it's difficult to know how to respond to that - again, it just seems to boil down to a matter of preferences.
Also I'm not sure it's really necessary to seperate out the issues of control and camera angles so much, since the one informs the other in very direct ways. In fact, I'd say it's useless to try to treat them as seperate issues.
I don't think I'm -over-simplifying anything. There's lots to talk about re: the controls/cameras etc but the impasse in the debate seems, fairly consistently to be at the point where one has to choose the relative importance of each advantage/disadvantage.
Whether this being a contradiction to the direct controls does or does not cause cognitive dissonance I can't say for sure. If people are experiencing it though, then they wouldn't necessarily know what it is or be able to articulate it; they'll just have a general feeling that something's not right. This may be the reason people can't explain why they don't like the new controls and just bang on about how point and click is better.
Having said that gamers are notorious for complaining about any kind of change so this could all be complete shit.
As these adventure games are more and more stepping into the realm of 3d immersive games (such as FPS and 3rd person games like Tomb Raider/Indiana Jones Emperor's Tomb and such) they are bound to adapt the according control interface as well. Imagine playing these games point and click. That wouldn't work.
Keyboard + mouse control is how 3d games work. It's how Tales of Monkey Island should work and I'm glad it does.
There, I denied it.
Replaying the opening scene once I was used to the controls was a piece of cake. There is nothing 'deeply flawed' about ToMI's control at all.
If the controls made you want to smash your keyboard, why not take 3 minutes to get used to the mouse control?
The puzzle was probably designed before the mouse controls had been considered so I'm willing to overlook it. If this crops up again though I'll be less inclined to let it slide.
The mouse + keyboard combo, for instance, is used all the way through. If you can't do that with the mouse control too, well, then there's clearly a problem.
However, your paragraph on scrolling backgrounds fall completly flat for anyone who played Goblins 3 or Woodruff. In these 2 games the scrolling backgrounds automaticly scroll anytime you put your cursor on the edges of the screen, allowing you to go anywhere and do anything without having to go clickclickclick to make the screen scroll.
You may argue that this only happen in these 2 games and it's hardly the norm for point and click but if game developers are too lazy to play lot of games and steal the other games' great ideas to add to their own games, it's their problem, not the point and click system's fault.
As for that solution you mentioned, it has been a while, but I seem to remember being annoyed at the screen scrolling when I didn't mean it to, and feeling somewhat detatched from the main characters because they seemed more like extra props in the puzzle than anything else.
It's a neat solution - but like every solution it has its own series of advantages and drawbacks.
It seems you just want this to be a problem.
Stop being so defensive. I'm not saying these solutions are bad or don't work, I'm just saying that they add complications and that the ideal point-and-click movement is probably at least as complicated as 'use arrow keys to move and mouse to point at stuff,' but without all the camera advantages the latter affords.
'shocking the monkey island community since 2002'
http://www.scummbar.com/images/upload/captainmysteryh030703110027.gif
Ultimately, though, I agree with the conclusions. I think it's great that TT are trying new ideas, I wouldn't want it any other way.
Most people who I've spoken to who don't like the controls like them BECAUSE they're not point-n-click movement which apparently has nothing wrong with it and BECAUSE they're 'obviously doing it just to make it easier for consoles (an argument that gets more ridiculous the more you examine it) and because obviously changing the controls sucks for -some unspecified reason-.
Those people exist, they're not just straw men, and I'm talking about them. I'm directly responding to an argument I've seen time and time again, even weeks before the game was even released.
In retrospect my silence probably is part of the reason this article has ended up being aimed at a vocal minority of idiots rather than being a springboard for intelligent discussion. Oh well.
HOWEVER, I would have much, much, much preferred if Telltale had have decided that the game was going to be a point&clicker, and designed the environments and scenarios accordingly. None of the 'advantages' of keys+mouse would have been necessary or even advantageous if the environments and camera angles were planned with pointing and clicking in mind to begin with.
And, honestly, I doubt that this design decision was ever seen as particularly advantageous; as surplusgamer and other people have stated, it is an almost perfectly functional alternative that enabled TTG to explore different aesthetic possibilities. And, when facing a community overwrought with fear of three-dee environments, I get the feeling they needed to exploit every interesting possibility they could (for example, the over-the-shoulder shot as Guybrush ascends the bridge toward the Marquis' tower.)
I think part of the origin of my friction with the controls is the fact that the game is SO CLOSE to being a straight forward point and clicker. The point and click mechanics are right there in the game, and there are times when, because you're clicking on objects, you don't need the extra controls and everything still works perfectly fine.
The crux of my point? It seems to me that a whole extra layer to the controls is adding needless complexity to the equation. As the Lucasarts adventures evolved, they moved towards more minimal, streamlined and elegant interfaces. The idea behind this evolution is obviously to minimize the barrier between the player and the experiential content of the game. In an ideal situation the player would become unaware that he\she is even using an interface.
In my opinion the design missteps of TOMI:EP1 are just failures to recognize a more straight forward or streamlined solution. A perfect example of this is the object combination system. Rather than simply allowing for item combination during natural use of the interface, there is actually a unique part of the interface created specifically for item combination, with two slots and a button. In an effort to make things easier, they have actually made things more complex. I feel the exact same thing has happened with the controls. To me good game design (good software design for that matter) goes for the most concise and intuitive interface possible which allows the required range of activity.
The bridge scene comes up a lot in these discussions. My first and honest-to-god reaction to that scene was the feeling that the camera work there was chosen not for it's compositional value or visual interest, but to hide Guybrush's feet as he walked across a part of the environment that is clearly so unfeasibly shaped that it would have looked ridiculous. Look how steep that thing gets at the end.
Of course, like I said, I have nothing but appreciation for Telltale and will continue to give them my money and play their awesome games. I'm simply sharing the nature of my TOMI experience as honestly as I can.
I wonder how many other people do not look at the "options menu" and had the same experience as me?
To be honest, direct control and point and click are just about even for me. There's no point raking over their relative merits - any perceived strength can also be a weakness in the right circumstances. For instance, direct control is better when you have roving cameras - really? Did you spend long struggling to navigate Guybrush around his bucking, swaying ship using the mouse-dragging control scheme? I did (for some reason) and it sucked. I won't bother going into any other examples - my point is there are always going to be pros and cons depending on the situation.
Well, yes. This was largely my point - both have their strengths and weaknesses but TTG are probably right to think about new ways to do it.
I'm still not entirely sure what your point is in the first paragraph even though we talked about it on IRC - there are several scenes in the game that are set up so that the camera angles would prevent you being able to click a spot to walk their in an intuitive way, and why have a system that would only work some of the time... wouldn't that be more confusing?
Also - I don't like the mouse dragging control scheme, either, but mainly because it feels to me a bit like dragging Guybrush around by the belt rather than directly controlling him. Had no such troubles with the keyboard/mouse combo though. Certainly better than trying to click to move to a spot on the ground that was constantly moving around!
Actually, the main thing I wanted to say is that I'm not sure it's fair to ask Telltale to give up all the progress they've made in improving the composition of scenes, making the presentation really dynamic just to appease a vocal minority - and it is a minority, I'm fairly certain - who don't get on with the hybrid mouse/keyboard controls
Combination keyboard and mouse is definitely the way forward, much better than the control system in Grim. TOMI wasn't perfect, but a step in the right direction.
True; there will never be one true control system. The answer is matching the game/camera/movement style with the control system.
Had an idea (prob thought of by others); wouldn't the Wii remote be ideal for TOMI? It's a single control device, with the ability to point and click and use the d-pad to move using just one hand! Hmmm, anyone know how to use a Wii remote with a PC?