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Ron Gilbert and Dave Grossman talk Return to Monkey Island Page Two

elTee: Given that we’ve mentioned Craig, and sort of, keeping it a secret, this kind of thing. Like I’ve mentioned, I personally had reached a point where I kind of had accepted that it probably, we were never going to see another Ron Monkey Island game, which helped, you know, kind of keep it a secret, in that sense. There was no…when you did the joke, there was no suspicion that it was not a joke. Because, obviously, when Craig did the special editions, I had quite a lot of fun watching people play the special editions on YouTube who had never played the originals, who were just completely coming into series fresh, as like new games in 2009. And what was really sad was that they got to the end of the second game, and they wanted to know what came next. And then I was like, you know, I thought maybe at the time I was like, “Wouldn’t it be amazing if they used this as an opportunity to do like a new game for these people who have only played the special editions and you know, say, maybe even using the same engine or whatever, but a new game with Ron, you know, designing it.” And after that period had passed, it really felt like, yeah, you know…it’s very sad, but I understand these things happen. And, obviously, you were still making games. Thimbleweed Park is—I love it. So it wasn’t the end of the world, but yeah, I think…there’s not really a question in here, is there? [laughter] There’s like, two generations of people who are kind of waiting to see what happens next. Because, we love all the sequels that you guys…like, The Curse of Monkey Island, Monkey Island 4. But they’re kind of separate for people who played the first two games first. But they’re fine, they’re Monkey Island games. They’re real; they count. But they’re still in this separate box, where they’re not quite the same as the first two. So I think there’s gonna to be people like me, who’ve been waiting a long time, and then there’s going to be a bunch of other people who maybe have ten years ago played Monkey Island 2: Special Edition who are going to see it, and be like, “Oh wow, they made Part 3!” And it’ll be really interesting to go onto YouTube and see what kind of reactions there are, you know, after the game’s come out. Again, I apologize that there was no question. [laughs]

Dave: Looking forward to, and terrified by, that whole prospect.

Ron: And there’s also a lot of people who have never played Monkey Island before. ‘Cause much as we’d like to think that the whole world knows about Monkey Island, everybody plays it, but there’s just a lot of people that don’t. And, they may have heard it, they may have heard the name of it, but they just don’t know what it is. And one of the things we did with our playtesting, is we brought in groups of people who had never, ever heard of Monkey Island before. It’s not that they had not played them—they never knew about this game. And really, looking at the way they dealt with the game, and the things that they found confusing because maybe we were taking too many liberties in assuming people understood things. And so, that was really interesting, to kind of watch them play the game and how they approached it. And I think one of the groups got to the whole end of the game, and really, totally misinterpreted what we were saying because they had none of that background, but they loved what they thought we were saying. Which, I thought was very interesting, you know, because they were like, super happy with the ending. “Oh my God, this means X, Y and Z!” and we were like, “Uh, no it doesn’t.” [laughter] “But I’m really glad you think it does, ‘cause you seem to really like that!”

elTee: So you’re literally going to be pleasing all the people all of the time.

Ron: Well, I think there’s a certain group of people that will be displeased no matter what we do. Unfortunately.

elTee: Yeahhh, those people. We, yeah. [Ron laughs] One of the great pleasures I had with the first special edition, I was just quickly gonna say, was watching someone who had never played it before, and then they slowly realized it was supposed to be a comedy. [laughter] And then suddenly, they were like, all these things where they were like, “That’s a bit weird.” Then after about fifteen minutes things suddenly clicked, and it was so nice to watch someone go through that experience, you know, you totally forget that that’s what it was like. It never even occurred to me that someone would be able to play the new game without the experience of the previous games, so that’s really interesting.

Dave: It’s interesting that you bring that up, ‘cause there’s so much that you need to sort of get people on board with at the beginning of any game. Like, oh, this is a game where you can drive around the main character, and you have to sort of, think up puzzle solutions for things, but also: this is a comedy. This is, kind of one of them. You have to sort of make that clear, minute one.

Marius: It’s interesting how the start of Return to Monkey Island—around May 2020?—kind of aligned with the thirty year anniversary of The Secret of Monkey Island And then there was the big stream with the Video Game History Foundation, and digging cool things from the games. I just wonder, because it was around that pre-production time, or beginning of production—did it inspire you to do something, to add something?

Ron: I mean, I don’t know that it really inspired...There was sort of a lot of stuff that was happening around Monkey Island that I would like to think we pre-planned and organized. And that’s just not true. I mean, those sort of just randomly happened around the same time. I mean, even things like launching the game on Talk Like A Pirate Day, right. You’d think that was some masterstroke that we’d had in the works for months. But it really isn’t, right. It’s just, the game slipped a few weeks, and we thought, “You know what? It’s really close to Talk Like A Pirate Day. Let’s just move it to that day.” Right? So it wasn’t like some master marketing plan of [points to Stan behind him] of Stan’s.

Dave: Despite what Stan will tell you.

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Fan-favorite Stan has become a bit of a mascot for Return to Monkey Island.

Marius: Yeah, yeah, he wish he had that idea. [laughs] I’ve got a lot of…not a lot of…short questions. Is the rumor true that you wanted to kill Wally in Monkey Island 2?

Ron: I don’t ever remember that.

Dave: Yeah...

elTee: I don’t even know where the rumor comes from. It’s one of these things that’s probably an urban legend. It was that he was gonna drown between the fortress and Dinky Island, I think. And the quote, I remember, was that it was “too cruel,” and it was removed. Like, people liked Wally, and didn’t want him to drown, or…

Ron shakes his head no.

Dave: That seems very heavy.

Marius: [laughs] Yeah!

Dave: …off-tone for Monkey Island...

elTee: It felt out of step with everything else that happens. [laughs]

Dave: Also, Ron likes Wally. I don’t know that he would have been planning that any time.

Marius: I’m glad.

Ron: Yeah. There was a little chunk of the game involving Wally, kind of…I think he was floating on a raft or something. It was never implemented, but that was just an idea that we had. I don’t know where that would have gone had we actually done it. But no, there was no plan to kill Wally, ever.

Marius: That’s awesome. I can now finally sleep [laughter] safe, knowing that.

Ron: I was watching this YouTube video just a couple of weeks ago which was, you know, “The Top Ten Things You Don’t Know About Monkey Island”. You know, a [inaudible] video. And it’s like, I’m just watching this, going, you know, five of those things are totally made up. I do not know where they got those things. Clearly, no one is doing fact-checking when they’re doing those.

Marius: Yeah, but now we are. We got to do the fact-checking now.

elTee: Yeah, we cleared up the “guy.brush”. That was taken care of.

Ron: Yeah, that “guy.brush” thing drives me nuts.

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Apologies were issued in 2020 and on behalf of The SCUMM Bar I will say again: We are sorry.—Remi

Marius: [laughs]

elTee: I can imagine.

Ron: Because, there’s a nugget of truth to it, right? That the file name was “guybrush.lbm”, but not “guy.brush” because we did not do this on an Amiga. We did it on an IBM PC which had an 8.3 filename thing. And I think it drives me crazy because people just, they don’t realize historically that was an issue that we had to worry about.

Dave: [slamming his palm] The details are important! [laughter] It’s like, a true thing where the facts are wrong. [laughter]

Ron: Yes.

Marius: There’s another rumor. They say, Dave, you had the idea of the Monkey Head being a robot, which ultimately appeared in Escape of Monkey Island.

Dave: That wouldn’t have been my idea, no.

Ron: Yeah, no. That whole thing about the monkey being a robot, that was something totally concocted by the Monkey 4 people.

Dave: You know, that sounds like a thing that we would have come up with as throwaway in one of our design meetings, you know, when we were getting particularly…like, “crew of chimps”-ian laughing about stuff that we would then not put in the game. “What if! What if it’s a robot?!”

Ron: Yeah. There was never...

Marius: And Mike Stemmle was passing the room hearing that, and remembering that [elTee laughs] for future. Mm, I wonder why did Guybrush never talk about the Secret in all the games after 1?

Dave and elTee murmur like they remember differently.

Marius: Well, no, he mentioned it. But he’s like, not invested in it.

Ron: Yeah, I don’t know that I really want to go into that until you’ve played the game. Once you’ve played the game, we can talk more historically about that stuff. I don’t think I can have a meaningful discussion without spoiling things for people.

Marius: Okay, cool. I didn’t expect that. I thought I would get a joke answer. Like “Oh, it’s Guybrush. He’s like…” [Ron laughs] Interesting, okay. Ah! Well, [laughs] now my notes are gone.

elTee: All right, I have some of the questions that some of the other guys wanted to ask. Some of them are a bit…questions for the sake of questions…type thing, um. [Ron and Dave laugh]

Dave: Oh, those.

elTee verbally struggles to find something on the list that hasn’t, in fact, been covered.

elTee: The main one that Jason wanted to ask was about if you ever came close to doing this kind of thing at any point previously. And as you said, you kind of were looking at it when Tales was announced. Was there any other time when you came close?

Ron: No, I wouldn’t say that I’ve ever come close. It’s just something I’ve always kind of poked at here and there, but it was never something that almost happened but didn’t. Or anything like that, no.

elTee: One thing I always wondered personally, is, at the time, when you guys were at LucasArts...obviously, it’s so long ago now, and there’s such a passage of time. At the time, it must have gone quite quickly. And I assume you must have really had no concept of the longevity of the projects you were kind of putting out there then. You know, that people are still playing Maniac Mansion and Day of the Tentacle and things.

Ron: Yeah, I don’t think we really did at all. It’s like, when we did Monkey 1, we immediately rolled into Monkey Island 2. Almost instantly, like it was a single project. I think there were a couple of weeks vacation. And then when Monkey 2 finished, I …you know, I think for me it’s like, “Yeah these are really good games, I’m really proud of these games,” but that’s all they really were to me at the moment. And, you know, I left and did Humongous Entertainment after that, and Dave, you know, moved on to Day of the Tentacle. And it’s not like we forgot about the games, but they really had not reached that status they have today. I get asked sometimes when I go to conventions, you know, “How could you leave this project? How could you leave a project that is just so absolutely amazing and popular and just abandon it?” It’s like, well, I did because it was just a game. It had not reached that stage where it had gotten that cult status yet, at all. And it really wasn’t something that I even was aware of until, you know, probably early 2000…2002 or 2004 when I first started my blog.

elTee: Right.

Ron: And when I started my blog, that was the point that all of these people are coming to my blog and really talking about Monkey Island, and I kind of thought, wow, there’s a lot of people that really love this game. And that’s when I kind of took a much deeper look at the whole thing, at that point.

Dave: Yeah, I left Lucasfilm after five years, so it was 1994. And by that time, like, the games were…well-regarded enough, professionally, within the industry, that I didn’t have to look very hard for projects. It was easy, you know, people were calling me, and it was easy to get work. But in my normal, day-to-day life, I never ran across anyone who had heard of them, and it was many years before that changed. Now there’s one or two here or there who are like, “Oh, I know that.”

elTee: Yeah, I remember seeing an interview with Mark Ferrari, and he said, like, it was around the same time as you, Ron. Like he’d gone to some class and they were introducing themselves, and everyone else in the class was like, “What, the Mark Ferrari?” [laughter] And that was how he learned that his work on these projects was like, incredibly highly regarded, still.

Ron: I think that’s true of a lot of things. It’s like, I’ve always thought that, at the moment if you think you’re building something super important and relevant, you are not. And if you don’t think you’re building something super relevant, then you actually might be.

Marius: That’s interesting.

elTee: I guess, yeah, it means that you’re focusing on the work itself rather than, you know, kind of, some bigger thing, you know. And then, if you focus on the work, I guess—obviously, these games speak for themselves in that quality sense. The quality is amazing.

Dave: Thanks.

Ron: And I think that’s what we really tried to do with this new game. You know, some of the early discussions Dave and I had about what people wanted. And I think the worst part about a game like this is you’re not necessarily trying to match the reality of the past. You’re trying to match what is in people’s minds. And everyone has a different image of what that was. Everyone has a different image of what Monkey Island was to them. And for us to really go through and build the game that was going to satisfy all those people is impossible to do. And one of the things that Dave and I talked about early on was, “We’re just going to make the game we want to make.” You know, we’re going to make the game we’re really happy with, it’s the story we want to tell, and it’s what we did with the first two games, right? There was no master plan there. We just made a game we wanted to make. And hopefully that works here.

Marius: I think that’s a great message for every artist. Like, in the end, like, you don’t really have to overthink things. Make want you want, and you will have your identity, and something, and you are discovering it during processing.

Dave: Yeah.

Marius: Really happy about that. [laughs]

Dave: Just pretend that we said that instead of you. [Marius and elTee laugh]

Marius: I just wanted to ask because you mentioned starting your blog. Ron, why did you call yourself Grumpy Gamer?

Ron: Oh, you wanna know the truth? Can you handle the truth? [laughter]

Ron: Because back in, oh, probably like late 1990s. Like at the point that you could actually register a URL, right about that point. A friend and I, who I worked with back at Humongous, we wanted to build—we wanted to have a web site that reviewed game reviews. We did not review games. We reviewed the reviews of games. And we just thought that was funny, right. And so I registered grumpygamer.com because that’s what this site was going to be. And then I just promptly forgot about it. And then, come 2004 or whenever I wanted to do a blog. And I’m like, “Oh, I already own this URL. I’ll just use that one.”

Dave: Nice.

Marius: Amazing. That’s, that’s…never thought that would be it. [laughs] Thank you for sharing.

Dave: I've never heard that story before, that was great.

Marius: This was more exciting than the Secret of Monkey Island. It’s amazing. Okay. [laughter]

Ron: That’s your clickbait headline for your article.

Dave: Has anyone done that in the meantime, the review the reviews? ‘Cause that still seems like a good…

Marius: It’s new to me.

elTee: It’s a good idea.

Ron: Yeah, I don’t think anyone really has. But I just thought it would be funny, to—“How good is this review?”

elTee: That’s a really good idea. Especially those reviews, like, of the era, when you had the idea, as well. Where it was literally down to decimal places of a score.

Ron: Oh, yeah, yeah.

elTee: It was kind of insane. You know, “This game is an 8.63.”

Ron: [laughs] Yeah, it feels like games went through this period where they were reviewed in the same way consumer electronics are reviewed, you know. How good is this pair of headphones? How good is this, you know, VCR unit?

elTee: It blows my mind, yeah.

Ron: And you can’t review…

elTee: No, exactly. ‘Cause I see these old reviews from the, kind of like, Amiga magazines. And it’s like: The Secret of Monkey Island. Sound: Five. Graphics: Eight. And you’re like, what? This isn’t how you experience this game at all! You’re not sitting there, like, breaking it into these…but, yeah, so that would have been a really funny web site.

Dave: Well they were classified as consumer electronics in many ways at that point. Or toys. From the legal standpoint, and before there were dedicated, like, gaming conventions, we used to show everything off at CES—the Consumer Electronic Show.

elTee: Yeah, there were some really valuable...I say valuable, I mean expensive, Loom CDs from CES. I think it’s like the soundtrack or something. I’ve seen them on eBay for hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

Ron: Really? Wow.

elTee: I think Brian Moriarty has a cupboard full of them or something. [laughs] I’m only guessing.

Ron: I very well could have a garage full of them too.

elTee: That would be, yeah. I would love to be able to explore those kind of little storage units. I remember you saying you had a storage unit in Seattle that flooded? That had like, old Monkey Island disks and things. It was like, a Library of Alexandria type thing for me.

elTee and Marius express anguish.

Dave: That’s what happened to all of my Tentacle triangle boxes, too. Had several of them.

elTee and Marius express further anguish.

Dave: They were in the garage, and there was, a water heater broke. Ruined them all.

elTee: So that was your retirement plan out the window.

Dave: Yeah.

elTee: Have to go back to work.

Ron: I don’t have a lot of boxes of my games. I think most of them are on the shelf back here. It’s only like about [holds his hands a few feet apart] this many. Except, for some reason, I have probably fifty copies of French Monkey Island 2.

Dave: Nice.

Ron: I have no idea where I got those, but I have virtually no boxes of stuff I have made except fifty Monkey Island French twos

Marius: Oh no…

Dave: You can trade ‘em for the others.

Marius: …France is still waiting for that box.

Ron: [laughs] It’s why we were never that popular in France. I was hoarding the copies.

elTee: They probably just took them over into Germany, because they’re more than popular enough in Germany.

Ron: Yeah.

Marius proudly holds up his boxed German copy of Monkey Island 2.

Marius: Well, I have to admit, all the things that pop into my mind now probably shouldn’t be asked before next week.

Dave: Fair enough.

Marius: And yeah. I’m out of questions, sadly. Do you have any questions?

Dave: Us?

Marius: Yeah.

Ron: Well, tell me how Mixnmojo got started.

elTee makes a tormented sound as he prepares to take a valiant stab at recounting Mojo’s history.

elTee: We’re on like, the second generation of people. I know James Spafford, who you probably know, who’s working at Double Fine now, he started the web site in 1997, and it was just a Monkey Island 2 fan site, I believe. I can tell you from my perspective. I started getting on the internet in the late 90s, but I didn’t have like a home connection. And the only things I would look up whenever I would started using the internet were LucasArts things. And I find all these web sites, dot mixnmojo.com. Like, you know, say, “soundisland.mixnmojo.com”. For like maybe two or three years I just assumed Mixnmojo was like Tripod or Geocities or something. And then, when I decided I was going to make my own web site, I thought, “Oh, I’ll go there and see if I can get the free hosting.” [Ron laughs] And then I realized it was a Monkey Island, like a LucasArts site, like a full, with a forum and everything. And ever since then, I’ve been, like, pestering the people, like Jake Rodkin, who I know you guys know, who was heavily involved at that point, just to be able to contribute, to write articles. I did, for a few years, run a web site in the early 2000s where you could get like free ringtones and, used to do these operator logos, where I draw like, LeChuck, and you could get that on your Nokia, like before iPhones and all this kind of thing. So it was way of customizing your cell phone, and things. But yeah, really the main person who’s kept it running over the last twenty years is probably Remi Olsen and his…there’s another Norwegian guy called Roger. And they’re the main, they do the main work, if you see what I mean. And there’s a guy in Louisiana called Jason who is prolific, like, in terms of the articles they do. The “Secret Histories” and these massive retrospectives on the games, you know, the kind of classic LucasArts, main fourteen adventure games that they put out. But we’re all, really, we just hang around in online chat and talk about [laughs] Monkey Island every day for the last like, ten, twenty years, which is kind of insane. But it’s paid off in the end.

Ron: Well, I guess we’ve given you a little more to talk about recently.

Marius: Yeah. The forum is insane. I mean, you probably saw it on Twitter. Like, discussions about the alley, and counting monkeys. Which, today had a new twist: Okay, how many chickens are there? There was a fight about the ghost chickens in LeChuck’s ship in Monkey Island 1. And one said, “Weren’t they ducks?” Like, “No, of course they were chickens!” [Ron laughs] Then, you know, I do have the scripts, right, so I looked at the scripts, and it says chickens, of course. But then I looked at the sound file, and the sound file was called “duck,” so... [laughter]

Dave: It does sound like a duck, though.

Marius: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s probably a sound from Loom, I guess? But, yeah, it’s a beautiful time, and we are going all insane, and it’s time for the game to come out or we will all destroy each other, I feel like. [laughs]

Ron: Well, less than a week.

elTee: It’s a real gift to us, so, yeah. I want to just say, personally, thank you both for just deciding to do it. You’ve made me personally extremely happy, so thank you.

Dave: You’re welcome. We did it just for you.

elTee: I’ll put that on the review. [Ron laughs]

Dave: “A game made just for me!”

elTee: Yeah. The only opinion that matters, is mine.

Marius: Yeah, thank you so much. I can’t find the words right now, but I’m really happy.

Ron: Well, I’m glad. This was fun.

elTee: And we really appreciate your taking the time to talk as well. Because we’re not the biggest web site or anything, and we just, we love you guys, so we really appreciate stuff like this.

Ron: Well, you’re not the biggest web site, but you’re the most important web site.

Dave: Yeah.

elTee: A quote to put on the site…

After some housekeeping chatter about publication logistics and everyone cruelly reviewing their own faces…

Marius: Well, we wish you a good final week.

elTee: A successful launch as well.

Marius: I hope not too stressful.

Ron: Oh, it’s gonna be horribly stressful.

Dave: Yep, it’s gonna get worse, day by day until next Monday.

Marius: Did you see the countdown has suggestions of what you can do instead of looking at them? And we have just added more activities.

Ron: Yeah, I saw that. That’s pretty funny. So what time are you using for the launch time of the game, on that counter?

elTee: Remi pulled a time off the Devolver web site. Like when it was set to change, a graphic was…in fact, I think someone on Reddit posted that, and then they used that. But it’s…I expect he’s gonna fine tune it, over the weekend, to try to get it to the exact second. Not that he necessarily knows when it’s going to be released. You know, I’ve booked Monday and Tuesday off work, and often when I’ve done this for games that are being released digitally—because of the time difference, they end up coming out in the evening after I would have finished work anyway. But I’m not taking any chances.

Ron: Yeah, sometimes…you know, Steam can be really frustrating, because they know…We launched Thimbleweed Park, but it actually takes like an hour to propagate around the world, you know, to all of its like, servers and stuff. And so, you know, some people are really excited that they can download Thimbleweed Park and other people are like, “Wait, wait! Why can’t I get it!” So, unfortunately it’s not probably not going to be to the second.

Marius: I’m scared of the time because I probably…reviews pop up as well, and I don’t want to see them, and like... [flails arms]

Dave: Gotta go dark, man.

Marius: Yeah, but I’ve also got to download the game first!

elTee: Are there people, like other major publications, getting like advance copies? Will there be reviews going out on Day One?

Ron: Yeah, I think just today we sent out keys to a very small group of reviewers.

Which included Mojo, for the record. elTee didn’t know that because we only bother sharing stuff like that with the important staffers.

Marius: Really? I didn’t receive any. That’s weird…

elTee: No, I’m glad I found this out, because now I too am going to avoid the reviews until after I’ve played it. If they’d just got it on Day One and rushed through it, that’s one thing, but if they’ve been sitting with it for a week, then yeah, there’ll be spoilers in there.

Ron: Yeah, we ask them not to do spoilers, and we ask them not to spoil the beginning, and all this stuff. I think for the most part they’re pretty good at that, but you can never be sure, so. Yeah, I would say just…

elTee: I remember with Telltale, a lot of the time they gave out so many review copies that some of the people just didn’t even understand what the embargo was, and it was really frustrating sometimes.

Dave: Sorry about that.

Marius: [feigned outrage] Dave, why?

Dave: We had recognitions issues. Had to get the word out any way we could, at that studio.

Marius: Ah, well. We will survive, Daniel.

elTee: Hey, yeah, this is…you know, I’ve got no complaints. The last two years, like, globally, politically, have been really tough, and this year is the year of good things, so, yeah. No complaints.

Ron: Well, I hope you like it.

elTee: I think, honestly, I’m happy even if I don’t like it. [laughter] I’m happy now. I think I’ll love it. I’ve loved all your guys’ other games, like without fail, so I’m sure I’ll love it. But, yeah.

Marius: Exactly the same. I just hope…I have to think about, and don’t have an opinion for a long time. This is kind of what I look forward to. Hope for.

Ron: And that’s a hard thing to do in the kind of the modern world of games, you know. It’s like, people have very short attention spans these days, you know, and there are certain groups of people that love to just be stuck on a puzzle, you know, for days. And I don’t know if that’s really possible today, to really do that. I think you have to really isolate yourself. You know, and then there’s a hint book in the game, tempting you. You can just click on the hint book and get a hint. So, I think it requires a lot of willpower to not do that.

Dave: Yeah, it’s like over there in the corner. “Murray! Just take one!”

Marius: Yeah, I saw the video already!

Dave: “Just one hint! Then you’ll be okay!”

Marius: [laughs] But I meant like…Because you said you hope we like it. And I think, like I bet I will like it, but what’s more important for me is like, if the end credits roll, I would like to be “I don’t know what’s going on.” [Ron laughs] I’m thinking of Twin Peaks Season 3 and, I love it, and…yeah. Weird! Why did we get here now? [laughs] Sorry.

Ron: Well, you will be happy to know that I think the ending…there’s a lot of interpretation that can go into the ending.

Marius: That’s what I meant.

Ron: So yeah, I think there will be that. And there’s five variations of the ending, depending on things you did. And they all kind of have different interpretations, and so I think you will find that good, yeah.

Marius: Huh! I think I’ll love it, Ron. [laughs]

elTee: Yeah, it sounds and looks fantastic. It really does.

Marius: Yeah, yeah.

elTee: And we’re both. I mean like, I don’t think Monkey Island fans get much bigger than me and Marius, and we were talking to each other yesterday—we’re both just unbelievably excited. Like, we’re not sleeping until next Monday.

Dave: That’ll put an interesting twist on the whole thing.

Ron: Yeah, you download the game and then you fall asleep from exhaustion and don’t actually get to play it.

Dave: Hallucinate the entire experience.

elTee: That would be a really horrible thing to wake up, and…yeah. Maybe this is the hallucination. It’s not real.

Marius: Our shared hallucination. Okay, I think we got a lot of time from you two. Thank you again for taking your time.

elTee: Yeah, that’s really generous. Thanks, guys.

Ron: Yeah, this was a lot of fun.

Dave: Yeah! Nice to meet you, finally, Daniel.

elTee: Yeah, you too. And you, Ron. It’s thrilling for me. I will never forget it.

Ron: Alright, thanks! This was a lot of fun!

Dave: Yeah!

Ron: Good interview!

Marius: Thank you for revealing the Grumpy Gamer origin.