So after only several hours' delay, Tales of Monkey Island Chapter 4: The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood is at last available for downloading!
What are you waiting for?! Get to it!
Update from Mr Manager ("we just say 'manager'"): Reviews are a bit slow coming this time, as the reviewer's copy was first released late last night. But hey, they're trickling in -- go read The SCUMM Bar's fanboy droolings and World of Monkey Island's musings.
Update: Our own review is now up!
Update by Kroms: There's a few Chapter Five spoilers flying around, so you best be warned about any threads containing the words "Nintendo Power". There's one thread on the Telltale Forums that I can't name (Chapter Four spoilers), but it begins with the words "What Morgan" and is posted by user TheHutt. Try to avoid it if you want to remain spoiler-free for Chapter Five.
Source: Telltale's Blog
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If you want a humour game go playing Sam & Max.
If you want Monkey Island, expect for some drama, and some epic, too..
And for all of you that are incapable of appreciating a wonderful game like TOMI only because they are incapable to understand that we are no more in the '90's, and so a cinematic-style Monkey Island maybe could be ok for the today-times, sell your pc, buy a 486, and remain playing "LeChuck's revenge" for the whole rest of your life while we dream with the wonderful universe of Tales of Monkey Island...
My review was widely praising of the dramatic content of the game, only once saying it may have been heightened by making it more integrated with the puzzles.
Neither did I say I didn't want the drama and epic bits, or that I wanted more humour.
Neither did I say that I didn't appreciate the game, merely that for puzzly reasons it was my least favourite.
Neither did I criticise the cinematic nature of the game, which I am a huge advocate of, right down to the control system.
I wrote the review I wrote because I went into the chapter expecting better and I can honestly say I was disappointed by some aspects. What precisely is your problem with this?
2) The fact that they're doing a cool thing and making an effort does not and should not make them immune to criticism.
3) Mojo and TT go back years - there are staff there who used to write on this site and even those who have a hand in the design process. With this in mind we have a unique opportunity of constructive dialogue with Telltale. If I say something could be better I don't do it lightly. It's for two reasons - firstly because I like to be honest and secondly because I know there are people listening who can genuinely make a difference, and I want them to be as good as they can possibly be.
The criticisms I've read seem trivial compared to my love of how much this episode FEELS like Monkey Island.
A lot of that has to do with the visuals - Flotsam is lit beautifully, in a way that evokes the sort of mood and atmosphere that is, to me, quintessentially Monkey Island. There's a quality captured here that I haven't felt from the previous episodes, and have been craving the whole time. The warm, candle-lit interiors.. The night-time atmosphere and the light peering out from cracks or windows of buildings..
It's not that I want the same thing from every Monkey Island game, but I don't think Telltale have created quite so effective atmospheres up to this point. The way the previous episode was lit, for instance, seemed amazingly plain and missed out on an obvious chance to have dramatic, ominous contrast created by light sources in an otherwise (one would think) completely dark place.
Monkey Island locales need to be evocative. MI2 and 3 did this stunningly. Now Telltale seem to be getting the hang of it. I find myself engaging with the plot and characters much more sincerely when the environments take themselves seriously and draw me into their mystery.
Floatsam island is pretty close! Sometimes it seems a bit like a watered down Scabb island though!
But instead, we got a lot of smooth, velvet-voiced gameshow announcer Stans.
"Now's not the time to mind the techna-calities son!"
1:36 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNMeYkSLNCw
But yes, as originally depicted, he probably would sound a more southern.
I would also like the point out the brilliant reintroduction of Stan in CMI... perfectly executed. Compare that to EMI or TMI. Pheh.
But my own opinion is represented near perfectly by Surplus Gamer's. It was the hardest episode, and had some big emotional moments, but the puzzles and the plot were less integrated than, say, Leviathan. Meaning it didn't flow in quite the same joyous way as the previous episode.
Pity the fool who has to review Episode 5*.
* Oh, shit.
While I respect your review, I must say that I enjoyed it immensely and thought the writing and the puzzle design was top-notch! (especially the feast of the senses puzzles!)
The laugh-factor was also raised up a level with Trials. Many clever in-jokes and gags around here!
And what an epic cliffhanger!
I really don't understand how anyone can dislike this! Oh.. well.
Really enjoyed it too, of course. Finale should be great!
Almost EVERY puzzle is a set, that is, you have to solve three or four very small grouped puzzles to get to the next set. Every chapter seems like a patterned approach, which is far simpler in design than anything in CMI, MI1 or 2.
I'm still not cool with the switch to Mer-people, Giant Manatees, and whatever those Sea Monsters were. What MI2 captured was the CLASSIC sense of piracy and buccaneers... TMI just copies Hollywood's recent forays into the genre.
"I just finished about two hours of the game and from what I can see im pretty much pleased. However one thing that really bothers me a lot is the new style of monkey island (EMI and TMI). The atmosphere of the games are just not cutting it for me. Let me explain by comparing the first 3 games to the last 2 (may contain spoilers):
I remember how dark the first three games were and I thought that the darkness added a very unique touch to the games. The islands in those games really lived up to their names like blood island, melee island, plunder island, and scabb island were all very dark atmospheric islands and each one had its own trademark to it. With the new ones I feel that each island is pretty much a gimmick. In EMI you had an island filled with tourist attractions and in this new one you have flotsam island which is an island built from flotsam. The islands of the new games are way too sunny and lively for my tastes and not exactly the blood thirsty pirate islands that I want to explore.
In the first 3 games each building was repulsive and broken down and made the player want to go inside and explore. The buildings had life to them and even the ones that you cannot enter were pretty to look at. The buildings in these last two are very bland and very one dimensional. And EVERYTHING in the game looks like it was made out of plastic. With this new game I wasn’t able to enter any buildings (yet!) but all in all I really don’t care if I ever do.
And last complaint is the characters. I guarantee you every MI fan will remember Otis, meathook, Carla, the three barber pirates, murray, Captain rottingham, Wally governor phatt, Captain Dread and pretty much all or most of the characters from the first three games. Now I challenge anybody to name one new character introduced in EMI. TMI is looking to be even worse than EMI in this category. All the new characters are just really boring to interact with and to look at.
Nevertheless as far as the game itself goes, Im really liking it and the puzzles are really well thought, but that was something I just had to get off my chest and now that I got it off I think I can go back and have fun playing it because it really is a fun game."
I didn't like EMI and both the old and new characters that were in it, but Marco Pollo was a very catchy name and everyone should remember it.
TMI is stacking up well behind the first three games in the series, and given the predictable, and formulaic style of the puzzles, I'm surprised that you're drooling all over it.
Have any of the characters so far really given any of CMI's a run for their money? How about comparing TMI's atmosphere to that of MI2? No? Didn't think so.
Years from now, you're still going to remember the Goodsoups, the tunnels under Big Whoop, sealing Stan into a coffin, the music outside Rum Rogers' cabin, the first sighting of a three-headed monkey, and Herman Toothrot (before they screwed with him in EMI)...
And just like the fourth game in the series, you will soon forget about fifth.
take everything you said and then make it the inverse of that.
More to the point, don't ask a question and then (dis)agree with yourself under that hypothesis, then stick that opinion on me. I find the characters in TMI *very* memorable, thankyouverymuch.
How can you even compare the characters in TMI and CMI? Seriously... in one game the characters are mostly based on the same 3D models slightly modified (EMI 2.0), and the other has rich renderings, which suit their voices perfectly.
The amount of depth and design in the characters of CMI, from Kenny and Murray, to Dingy Dog and Goodsoup dwarf any of the characters in TMI.
I can't think of a single character from TMI so far who I would enjoy seeing again. Can you?
I suggest playing through one of the first three games again for some perspective. Especially 2 or 3.
You're faulting the game for what isn't its fault, though. Don't think that TTG's reuse of the character models was a choice. For what the game is, it's spectacular.
I DO think the characters are very memorable.
I DO think the writing and puzzles are superb.
I DO think the locations, the art direction, the general atmosphere, are things to be applauded.
EMI doesn't "suck," either. It had its glaring faults, sure, but it was still a good, solid game that, unfortunately, did not live-up to its brethren.
I don't think that, in the foreseeable future, we'll see the kind of Monkey Island game you want, a 2D, overarching adventure that has that same look, just because the tech and market wouldn't allow it. In the meantime, take what you have.
Because it's fantastic.
Again, this lacks the perspective of the past. What words do you have left over to praise the first three games? Greatastic? Specfabulous? You'll need to invent words.
EMI was a forgettable game. Was it even good as you say? If showing up is good enough, then yes, but just using the MI characters is not good enough. TMI is many notches above EMI for sure, but let's be clear: still many notches below games 2 and 3.
Try this, name one memorable character from chapters 1 or 2, who is NOT a main character... I think you will find yourself unable to do so by memory alone!
There is a reason we can all still name Kenny, the frickin lemonade kid/gunrunner a decade later!!!
I'm guessing it has more to do with nostalgia for you.
>> Try this, name one memorable character from chapters 1 or 2, who is NOT a main character... I think you will find yourself unable to do so by memory alone!
Now, after Chapter One, I would have said Van Winslow and the Marquis and that was that. (Well, plus "That guy who kept saying croaker cracker.") But after Chapter Four, I can name the entire cast.
As for Chapter Two, no problme. Anemone (<3), Tetra, the Merleader, Hardtack, Trenchfoot, McGillicutty, and Morgan LeFlay.
We don't have to share your opinion. At least mine isn't clouded by nostalgia.
(And yes, I do not think EMI *sucked*, and you'll find a lot of people agreeing with me.)
What I am arguing is that the massive praise placed on this game lacks the perspective of the past, truly excellent games in the series.
And, that there are no substantive reasons to praise the game in such high fashion as you and other have so far. It is nice to see Guybush again, but let's not kid ourselves. This game is not even in the same category as the first three, unless you count 3D acceleration. It's a fun diversion.
Most of all, I wonder if you have even played the other games considering how highly you praise TMI.
Just for the sake of comparison, let's look at the puzzles. In the first three games, you were often given some goals, and to solve said goals, say assemble a pirate crew, you would have to do a lot of work. The payoff came after a long, hard fought mental battle. Remember what it felt like to find that LAST map piece in MI2? Or to best the swordmaster?
With TMI, the goals are almost all quickly accomplished. The payoff is quick, and not very interesting. You move on to another small set of extremely short puzzles. Neither satisfying or particularly hard. This approach makes the puzzles just seem like means to and end(just to see what happens next, yawn), unlike in the other games where the puzzles fully engaged you with the story. Get out of manatee. Check. Dig up treasure. Check.
None of the puzzles so far really fits in that special Monkey Island universe like puzzles from the first three games do.
Kroms, you have no argument, except that you like the game... and not just that you like, it, you LOVE IT. Seriously, you're comparing Winslow to Kenny, Or Haggis, or even vegetarian Lemonhead? What makes Winslow unique in any way? Not much. The writers COULD have developed the characters but they didn't. Play through CMI or MI2 again... the writers put in so much detail. You think Tetra is a good character? Whatever, Tetra doesn't even have a gender! And if you think that is good characterization... Tetra is beyond forgettable. You really care about seeing the Merpeople again?
Go back to the Phatt island library... layered with detail! You can go through the card catalog, etc. The library in this game is the ONLY BUILDING IN TOWN. Seriously, the Merpeople town left so much to be desired. Go to the Barbary coast, and listen to the stories...
TMI cannot hold a candle to CMI or MI2 in any way. Not a single one. And if you want your arguments to hold a candle to mine, you are going to have to do a lot better than simply drool over a mediocre game.
It's OK that you love TMI, but don't you dare compare it to the great games that came before it.
Tales is designed to be accessible to both hardcore fans and casuals. Every chapter is *designed* to be finished in one afternoon. You're criticizing the format of the games for something they can't help. You say you hate the merpeople town because of how small it is; I say that you should get used to the small chunks of episodic. We're dealing with limits where the game has actually had to use synthesized music.
But, you know what? It makes the game its own thing. And frankly, I don't WANT to go traipsing over a large island trying to solve some obscure puzzle the Albert Einstein of game puzzles made for me. Like, say, putting a monkey on a goddamn pump to turn off a waterfall.
You say you hate the payoff for the puzzles. Again: welcome to the crazy world of episodic content. The games *are* meant to be completed in such a short time. You say there's no payoff? What payoff? Was putting a gold tooth in bubblegum and flying it outside of a window your greatest accomplishment?
Tales has had, for me, that payoff of AHA! MI1-3 did as well, but it was done with a lot of hair-tearing frustration involved. Which lessened it somewhat.
Since I'm going with the pattern of your own infurirating arguments, I will use exactly one example. Because you seem to have missed what's funny about Tetra's gender being ambiguous, I'll go with Van Winslow.
The things that make Van Winslow so great are: 1. His cheerful optimism. He seems almost humored by the concept of Guybrush taking over his ship. 2. His ambiguity. He says some things that are simultaneously bizarre and hilarious, like his reply to the "Isle of Ewe" comment, or "I'll give her the old scurvy buttons." 3. His motives. He's the first of many TMI characters in that grey area where you can't tell if they're your enemies or your friends. Sure, Van Winslow's a crew member; but he also wants the ship. There's a good few other reasons as well, like his song or the voice acting.
(Plus he has such a kick ass name.)
Now, you may disagree. Hey, no worries, I seem to be in a minority a lot of the time as well. But to say that I shouldn't dare compare TMI to MI2/CMI...I love these games. They mean the world to me. And I have as much right to praise the shit out of TMI as you have to dislike it/say it doesn't hold up. All I know is that I disagree with you, and that, even if it ISN'T the case with you, I look at all these games with complete objectivity.
All of your complaints read to me as "I hate this change". "I hate that there aren't any piratey puzzles like assembling a crew", but then you ignore the bar fights, the mutiny, the interrogation, the siege, even the insane trial.
Or do you consider it piracy when you scam ten year old lemonade vendors?
PS: In case it hasn't been made clear yet, I DID play all the games, a few times through each. My different opinion won't kill you.
Now, there is something to be said for subjectivity here. Dude, if you like TMI, great, but, it makes me wonder about your appraisals of other Monkey Island games.
There is so little intelligence, wittiness, and depth to TMI, compared to previous games. I've used CMI as a constant comparison, and I will continue to do so, but MI2 works just as well.
I submit, that the sequence at the "Barbary Coast" in CMI has better writing, and characters than ANYTHING we have seen so far in TMI. And that is just 15 minutes of a whole game compared to all of TMI.
The level of wit and injokes, and self-reflexive nature of this sequence is pretty much missing in TMI. These are classic elements that made Monkey Island a gaming legend, for a reason. Go back and just play through that one room in CMI, that's all. You'll be amazed, and it will put the game you now love to shame. The barbers all have developed backstories. You can learn about them, mess with them a bit... meet a lesser villain, etc.
You listed a bunch of characters from TMI. Now go back to the other games. The characters from CMI won't just kick the asses of TMI characters; they'll come out of the computer and kick your ass, they're so good. And why are they good? Because they are ORIGINAL. Nothing we have seen so far in TMI is really that original... not when dealing with the lessor characters. The three guys in the Manatee? One of them is practically ripped off Hoagie from DOTT!!! The pirates? Who even cares about these guys? The glassblower? W.P? Maybe. but even the best TMI can give us, doesn't compare.
Even Morgan seems cliched. What is there to her character? Not much. How many times have we seen a strong independent woman character, who jumps around in the air like a ninja? Maybe not in a MI game, but that's also because ninja acrobatics doesn't really fit in a MI game!!! Pirates, not ninjas!
If you think Van Winslow has a kick ass name, you need to either watch more movies, or play more games, for comparison. EDWARD VAN HELGAN. Now, that's a cool name. At least that one is an illusion to someone else! Van Winslow? Please, Kroms. All you are doing is giving me your opinions, not reasons.
And all of your reasons for Van Winslow don't really carry over outside of your own head. He is cheerful... so what? If you've seen a movie in the past decade, you've probably seen a character who is cheerful despite the circumstances. Same with Morgan, as stated above.
You're right: TMI is a bunch of episodes, and I don't prefer that. But the point is that the episodic nature of TMI damages the Monkey Island tradition and atmosphere. Not to mention making the puzzles sort of suck and seem tacked on, as I said above.
I'm, sorry MI2 and CMI were too hard for you:)
I do consider the first three games among the greatest ever made. Ever. These games mean so much to me, it isn't even funny.
I think we just have different opinions on what makes a good character. I know what you're saying, but it doesn't apply to TMI. Sure, the first Sam and Max games had that problem, the second a little less so, and it's continued to lessen with each game they put out.
I think you're not seeing the entire picture of Morgan. What I like so much about her is that she actually tries to present herself one way, and the more you get to know her the more you realise how insecure and lonely she really is. Her relationship with Guybrush elevates her to a new level. Someone mentioned earlier that her conflicting feelings all happen when the plot needs it to, but the way she looks at Guybrush in Lair of the Leviathan at various points of the game, and their glances at each other on the boat at the beginning of Chapter Four, really take her up, I think. She may pose to be an independent, strong woman, uh, "ninja" (? What, can pirates not be a little stylish when they fight?), but there's a larger network of feelings going on under there.
Edward Van Helgan is indeed a kickass name. One that Van Winslow sits comfortable with, and for reasons related to it being so appropriate for the character. Like Murray.
Now, you love these backstories. Hey, I love them too (Cutthroat Bill's being a favorite), but they're the only characters like that in the entire series (or so I remember; apart from Goodsoup, anyways). And while I understand your reservations on Noogie or Moose (who I disliked till his banter with Santino on the ship), I do think you're exaggerating the "perfection" of CMI. There were many who hated that even more than you downvote TMI.
And now:
>> The pirates? Who even cares about these guys?
Most people who like the game, I guess.
>> And all of your reasons for Van Winslow don't really carry over outside of your own head.
Maybe I stated bad reasons, but he's still damn likeable.
>> The level of wit and injokes, and self-reflexive nature of this sequence is pretty much missing in TMI. These are classic elements that made Monkey Island a gaming legend, for a reason
I see wit and injokes in TMI. It's not my fault you can't/won't/don't want to.
>> But the point is that the episodic nature of TMI damages the Monkey Island tradition and atmosphere. Not to mention making the puzzles sort of suck and seem tacked on, as I said above.
Uhhh...okay? You could just ignore the episodes and have the DVD shipped as one big game. The episodic model has a lot of advantages. The biggest one is that we don't all have as much time to play through a 20 hour adventure without a few weeks of break in between, during which I'll forget the name of the island I'm on, much less what I'm supposed to be doing.
Like I said, I love the first three games and like the fourth. And I think the fifth is as good as the classics, and, subjectively, would probably count it as my favorite one.
Finally >> I'm using reasoning to show why your overwrought praise of this game is misplaced, and downright incorrect.
Sigh. Here. I'll use your method and show you why your "reasoning" doesn't work.
Look at Kenny. He's this fat little kid who sells lemonade in a "bottomless mug". Get it? HA.HA. Bottomless. What a bad pun. Where's the wit? Where's the joke? And then Guybrush actually scams the guy. Wow. Nice way of going from lovable to being an ass, Creepwood. Look at TMI, on the other hand. Look at the *real* humor and complete surprise in the "Bugeye" nickname. Did you see it coming? No. Anything you say about "bottomless" being a better pun is misplaced, and downright incorrect.
Now I don't actually believe that, but this is pretty much what your reasoning amounts to.
This has gotten a bit wordy so I'll just shut up now, but wanted to say there's always been a very vocal crowd who Hate the New Monkey Game. Even if you don't, I'm guessing you went into this wanting to dislike it, and are now picking on it. It really reads like that to me.
Second, your reverse reasoning on Kenny doesn't work. I'm not saying every character needs a lengthy backstory. Don't take me too literally here. Kenny's voice acting and humor really makes him memorable. Not so for anyone so far in TMI.
Morgan may be developed but she's not original, and therefore, pretty uninteresting. You can have the same character archetype in every movie, and develop him or her... but originality counts for a lot. It makes a character interesting.
etc.
(Not that I believe in those words.)
For what it's worth, TMI has been hit and miss with its characters, but so was MI2. Morgan I like, but I don't think she's GREAT like some people do - Van Winslow is probably my favourite because he's funny. As for characters like the Judge/barman in episode 4, he's as good as the barman in the Bloody Lip Bar and Grill, but he's significantly less developed. A lot of the incidental characters in TMI I think are weak, but so was the chef in MI2 (again at the Bloody Lip.)
Lame jokes apart, the puzzle design in TMI is the classical Telltale one. I agree it's rarther different from the old days style, but I still like and it suits me fine. It's just tailored to the episodic experience, and the I HAD to think my way through TMI puzzles.
As far as the characters go, you can't compare Winslow to anyone in CMI. Actually, I don't like him too much. But I can surely compare Morgan to anyone in CMI and think she's (qith Murray) THE best addition to the Monkey Island universe after some characters in MI2.
Honestly, I think you're assuming we're all "mesmerized" by the hype and gone totally blind.
TMI has got some problems which I can't still ignore (WiiWare graphics constraints, cloggy interface), but I SWARE I stopped looking at those flaws when I was faced with the pace of ep3 and ep4. It's a pace I never experienced in CMI, which featured great situations and characters, but a lamer plot.
I am not bashing CMI to worship TMI, I can't see why you should do the opposite.
I just like the two games for different reasons. :-)
I'm instead waiting for access to my PC...